Making my own full range 20hz speaker vs add dual subs to my floorstanding speaker

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

I'm seeying plenty of new drivers that look amazing, some from sb acoustics and purifi.
But the problem is still the same, 20hz!

Is that hard to make a speaker by myself or is just better buy a good 3-way speaker and then add dual subs?

Also, how can i cross the main speakers at 60~80hz?
Is not like my dac/pre has the feature for doing that, is there a good dac/pre with that feature ? dac/pre->power amp -> speakers?

 

[ooheadsoo]

Minidsp 2x4hd with remote is one option.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Yeah but i don't like the minidsp 2x4hd at all, its only 2 Vrms and my power amp needs at least 3 Vrms
RME don't have anything for this? what about others brands
When i bought my dac/pre was about 5 years ago

 

[radix]

The performance of frequencies < 200 hz (or so) strongly depends on the speaker's position in the room. Having the subs separate from the speakers allows one to position the subs to avoid or fill in the room nulls.

The other issue is that those low frequencies either need large cabinets or high power.

 

[Chrispy]

There are capable full range speakers, they just tend to be quite large/heavy/expensive (maybe not good looking, too).....and thus probably not all that popular in general terms. Easier to add subs and find bass management help with dsp....

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Im wondering if something like this can do prope 20hz with low distortion, doesn't look very complicated

 

[DVDdoug]

Also, how can i cross the main speakers at 60~80hz?
Is not like my dac/pre has the feature for doing that, is there a good dac/pre with that feature ? dac/pre->power amp -> speakers?

Most people use an AVR, which can also take advantage of the "point one" LFE from movies. (The LFE is thrown-away in the normal stereo down-mix).

Or if you build your sub with a Plate Amplifier, they often have a line-level crossover built-in.

Active crossovers can also be economical.

If you build a speaker of sub, get some speaker design software. WinISD is free. You enter the Thiele-Small parameters for a driver and you can model/optimize the cabinet before you build it.

You might also want to get a book or do some online research if you've never built a speaker before.

But the problem is still the same, 20hz!

You'll probably need a 12 or 15-inch (or larger) woofer and a large box, and a fairly powerful amplifier for "usable" 20Hz output. You can generally "push" a sealed box lower than a ported box, especially if you can boost the lowest frequencies with EQ, but that increases the power requirements and the woofer has to handle that boosted power. Your speaker design software can help you figure that out. Some numbers to remember are that a 3dB boost is twice the power and +6dB is four times the power.

FYI - The lowest note on a standard bass guitar is about 40Hz and most pro subs used in clubs and for live music are "tuned" down to around 40Hz. That's low enough for bass you can feel in your body if it's strong enough. By not trying to go down to 20Hz they can get more efficiency and more bass output. In a smaller home or studio space, it's easier to go down to 20Hz because you don't need as much acoustic power but you don't always need 20Hz to get "killer bass".

 

[Chrispy]

Im wondering if something like this can do prope 20hz with low distortion, doesn't look very complicated

Could be.... what is model/spec? Kinda reminds me of some of past Salk/Philharmonic offerings.

 

[Chrispy]

Most people use an AVR, which can also take advantage of the "point one" LFE from moves. (The LFE is thrown-away in the normal stereo down-mix).

Or if you build your sub with a Plate Amplifier, they often have a line-level crossover built-in.

If you build a speaker of sub, get some speaker design software. WinISD is free. You enter the Thiele-Small parameters for a driver and you can model/optimize the cabinet before you build it.

You might also want to get a book or do some online research if you've never built a speaker before.


You'll probably need a 12 or 15-inch (or larger) woofer and a large box, and a fairly powerful amplifier for "usable" 20Hz output. You can generally "push" a sealed box lower than a ported box, especially if you can boost the lowest frequencies with EQ, but that increases the power requirements and the woofer has to handle that boosted power. Your speaker design software can help you figure that out.

FYI - The lowest note on a standard bass guitar is about 40Hz and most pro subs used in clubs and for live music are "tuned" down to around 40Hz. That's low enough for bass you can feel in your body if it's strong enough. By not trying to go down to 20Hz they can get more efficiency and more bass output. In a smaller home or studio space, it's easier to go down to 20Hz because you don't need as much acoustic power but you don't always need 20Hz to get "killer bass".

Some plate amps might have an actual crossover, most just have a low pass filter....altho seems there used to be more of such.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Most people use an AVR, which can also take advantage of the "point one" LFE from moves. (The LFE is thrown-away in the normal stereo down-mix).

Or if you build your sub with a Plate Amplifier, they often have a line-level crossover built-in.

If you build a speaker of sub, get some speaker design software. WinISD is free. You enter the Thiele-Small parameters for a driver and you can model/optimize the cabinet before you build it.

You might also want to get a book or do some online research if you've never built a speaker before.


You'll probably need a 12 or 15-inch (or larger) woofer and a large box, and a fairly powerful amplifier for "usable" 20Hz output. You can generally "push" a sealed box lower than a ported box, especially if you can boost the lowest frequencies with EQ, but that increases the power requirements and the woofer has to handle that boosted power. Your speaker design software can help you figure that out.

FYI - The lowest note on a standard bass guitar is about 40Hz and most pro subs used in clubs and for live music are "tuned" down to around 40Hz. That's low enough for bass you can feel in your body if it's strong enough. By not trying to go down to 20Hz they can get more efficiency and more bass output. In a smaller home or studio space, it's easier to go down to 20Hz because you don't need as much acoustic power but you don't always need 20Hz to get "killer bass".

Nice answer.

BTW, i like the idea of the line-level crossover built-in. As far as I know, the KF92, Reference 8b and KC62 has that feature. But i find very interesting the Rythmik F15 but there is not built-in crossover :/

And i aggre, if i make a speakers, i should need a good book and some time for learn how to do it.



But i often i seen the range between 100-200hz with some cancelations and moving the sub kind of don't solve that problem, the best solution is just boost that range in the main speaker, i find room-eq very useful for this problem

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Could be.... what is model/spec? Kinda reminds me of some of past Salk/Philharmonic offerings.

Thats a joseph audio pearl

Crossover: 3-way Series/Parallel Asymmetrical Infinite Slope Crossover at 2 kHz & 130Hz.​

Listening window response: within 2dB from 25 Hz to 20 kHz.​

It's pretty much a Wilson audio type speaker

 

[Chrispy]

Thats a joseph audio pearl

Crossover: 3-way Series/Parallel Asymmetrical Infinite Slope Crossover at 2 kHz & 130Hz.​

Listening window response: within 2dB from 25 Hz to 20 kHz.​

It's pretty much a Wilson audio type speaker

Could do the job....hopefully they're better than Wilsons....

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

I also find kind of pretty setups like this
My problem is just the crossover

 

[Chrispy]

I also find kind of pretty setups like this
My problem is just the crossover

How so?

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

How so?

Would be very good if there is only a dac/pre with built-in crossover manager, it would be easier

Most of AVR are just bad if not all
Im kind of afraid to buy these external xcross and then hear noise in the tweeter at 5cm

In my small room, my floortanding is doing 30hz 0dB -6dB 25hz, but if i put these into a bigger room i will loss bass extension, the idea is having a medium size room in the future, things sound better with some space but i really like having good bass extension

 

[Chrispy]

If there is only a dac/pre with built-in crossover manager, it would be easier

Most of AVR are just bad if not all
Im kind of afraid to buy these external xcross and then hear noise in the tweeter at 5cm

Lots of 2ch gear has such limitation (lack of bass management). Ways around it, external dsp or even an avr works (and works well for me, switched from separates to such for most of my use). What's "bad" about an avr particularly in your use? Beats hell out of a lot of 2ch gear....

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Lots of 2ch gear has such limitation (lack of bass management). Ways around it, external dsp or even an avr works (and works well for me, switched from separates to such for most of my use). What's "bad" about an avr particularly in your use? Beats hell out of a lot of 2ch gear....

I don't like having noise in the tweeter/system, my currently setup with Purifi eigentakt is very silent and i don't wanna loss that

 

[dfuller]

Yeah but i don't like the minidsp 2x4hd at all, its only 2 Vrms and my power amp needs at least 3 Vrms
RME don't have anything for this? what about others brands
When i bought my dac/pre was about 5 years ago

Maybe a DBX Driverack will do what you want.

Failing that, you could splash out and go for a Lynx Aurora(n).

 

[dougi]

Would be very good if there is only a dac/pre with built-in crossover manager, it would be easier

Most of AVR are just bad if not all
Im kind of afraid to buy these external xcross and then hear noise in the tweeter at 5cm

In my small room, my floortanding is doing 30hz 0dB -6dB 25hz, but if i put these into a bigger room i will loss bass extension, the idea is having a medium size room in the future, things sound better with some space but i really like having good bass extension

A second-hand Lyngdorf DPA-1 would be a good option. Both balanced and unbalanced out with a lot of two-way crossover options. I used to use it when I used a sub with my setup. You can use two independent subs with it. It digitises all analog inputs though and it 10 or so years old so DAC performance,, while good, is not state of today's art. Plus it has room correction if you want that.

 

[Chrispy]

I don't like having noise in the tweeter/system, my currently setup with Purifi eigentakt is very silent and i don't wanna loss that

I don't have such issues with my avrs. I have some external amps that have a bit of hiss if you put your ear right up to the hf driver, tho.