JTR Noesis 212RT Measurements

[dwill73]

These speakers have been tested by limiting only 1 watt to them with amazing results.

That's what happens when you have high efficiency speakers. You can get a lot of output with very little power.

Different amps, different receivers, and different DACs give you different sound signatures and head room, if you will. Just because you have highly efficient speakers has little to do with sound quality. For example. Cherry amps have a lot of low end base and mid range depth, regardless of volume. When I look a a 2 channel stereo or a home theater I look at depth/head room, etc. It's everything combined that produces the overall product.

 

[LTig]

Different amps, different receivers, and different DACs give you different sound signatures and head room, if you will. Just because you have highly efficient speakers has little to do with sound quality. For example. Cherry amps have a lot of low end base and mid range depth, regardless of volume. When I look a a 2 channel stereo or a home theater I look at depth/head room, etc. It's everything combined that produces the overall product.

Uh huh. Proper DACs and amps have no sound of their own (true for amps which are not driven into clipping as here).

 

[tuga]

Uh huh. Proper DACs and amps have no sound of their own (true for amps which are not driven into clipping as here).

Everything sounds the same, only smooth wide directivity matters.

 

[richard12511]

Curious what amp/receiver are you using?? My room is a acoustic nightmare to say the least with a 18yr. old Yamaha ZR-1 amp and my JTRs sound awesome. I've had mine to 118db. without distortion. Cherry Monos someday.

I'm using this right now, but they did just fine on my Yamaha AVR before that.

 

[dwill73]

Uh huh. Proper DACs and amps have no sound of their own (true for amps which are not driven into clipping as here).

So, what you are saying all DACs and Amps sound the same and some just clipp faster then others ????

 

[dwill73]

Everything sounds the same, only smooth wide directivity matters.

You really don't make any sence what so ever. I mean really. After reading your post you have no mechanical or scientific aptitude what so ever. For real dude. Your the type of person that can ask 10 different questions and can get 10 different answers by experts and still not get it. Sorry. Maybe you should write books and start you're own speaker company and educate us all with you're wealth of knowledge.

 

[richard12511]

So, what you are saying all DACs and Amps sound the same and some just clipp faster then others ????

Personally, I think most DACs probably do sound the same, but there are definitely some that sound different on purpose to differentiate themselves. There's a thread over on AVS using Foobar ABX to test the transparency of the $8 DAC inside the Apple Lightning cable dongle, and so far nobody has been able to pass the test(meaning it's audibly perfect). If Apple can produce an audibly perfect DAC for $8, then I assume most other manufacturers selling $100 or even $1,000+ DACs can as well. If hearing the music exactly how it was intended(transparency) is your goal, then one need not spend more than $8. Hard to believe that $8 buys perfection(at least until we start getting cyborg ears ala Cyberpunk 2077), but it does seem to be the case.

I may eventually try an external DAC, but it would probably be something like the Chord Hugo 2 or something else like it that has multiple presets for different colorations, like "Warm", "Detailed", "Neutral", ect; kinda like a form of tone controls. Plus, it looks cool. There's also the issue of different DACs supporting different formats, features, ect. which is another good reason to choose one DAC over another.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Personally, I think most DACs probably do sound the same, but there are definitely some that sound different on purpose to differentiate themselves. There's a thread over on AVS using Foobar ABX to test the transparency of the $8 DAC inside the Apple Lightning cable dongle, and so far nobody has been able to pass the test(meaning it's audibly perfect). If Apple can produce an audibly perfect DAC for $8, then I assume most other manufacturers selling $100 or even $1,000+ DACs can as well. If hearing the music exactly how it was intended(transparency) is your goal, then one need not spend more than $8. Hard to believe that $8 buys perfection(at least until we start getting cyborg ears ala Cyberpunk 2077), but it does seem to be the case.

FWIW, I have both this particular Apple dongle and an RME Adi-2 DAC FS costing ≈ 130 times as much, and can't tell the difference between them (except in terms of max. output).

The RME does have various benefits though: balanced output, volume control, equal loudness compensation, EQ, SPDIF in, ASIO support, etc.

 

[LTig]

So, what you are saying all DACs and Amps sound the same and some just clipp faster then others ????

Replace "all" by "proper" as I wrote. Regarding amps those with less power clip earlier.

 

[tuga]

You really don't make any sence what so ever. I mean really. After reading your post you have no mechanical or scientific aptitude what so ever. For real dude. Your the type of person that can ask 10 different questions and can get 10 different answers by experts and still not get it. Sorry. Maybe you should write books and start you're own speaker company and educate us all with you're wealth of knowledge.

Dude? Do I know you from the school playground?

Actually I get 10 different answers by experts to the same question.

 

[tuga]

Just because you have highly efficient speakers has little to do with sound quality.

Have you read what Salvatore writes in his rather shrewd The Evolution Of Sonic Priorities? "the first step above "pure junk" is for more "bass and power"; with most people never "growing" any further."

 

[dwill73]

Dude? Do I know you from the school playground?

Actually I get 10 different answers by experts to the same question.

OK, fair enough. After your 10 different answers, do you still consider these JTR speakers Mid-fi at best ??

 

[tuga]

OK, fair enough. After your 10 different answers, do you still consider these JTR speakers Mid-fi at best ??

I still consider, as initially stated and until proven wrong, the horn on this particular JRT model mid-fi at best.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I still consider, as initially stated and until proven wrong, the horn on this particular JRT model mid-fi at best.

What would "being proven wrong" involve exactly?

 

[tuga]

What would "being proven wrong" involve exactly?

More than just a spinorama, listening.

Others can go on the spinorama, their ears, the subjective assessment linked in the first post...

 

[andreasmaaan]

More than just a spinorama, listening.

Others can go on the spinorama, their ears, the subjective assessment linked in the first post...

You would not accept that any pair of speakers was better than "mid-fi" unless you'd personally heard them?

 

[tuga]

You would not accept that any pair of speakers was better than "mid-fi" unless you'd personally heard them?

Really? Thanks for the post.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Really? Thanks for the post.

Sorry, I don't understand. I was asking you a question. You said the only proof you would accept that the horn on these speakers was better than mid-fi was "listening".

I was clarifying what I thought you meant: that you don't accept measurements alone as proof that a speaker is better than mid-fi.

Did I misunderstand you?

 

[tuga]

Sorry, I don't understand. I was asking you a question. You said the only proof you would accept that the horn on these speakers was better than mid-fi was "listening".

I was clarifying what I thought you meant: that you don't accept measurements alone as proof that a speaker is better than mid-fi.

Did I misunderstand you?

Well, you missed the part about the Spinorama...

And whilst I buy electronic equipment on measurements, speakers need to be listened to, particularly ones with crude horn designs.
I won't trust other listeners' assessments with one exception (someone I know personally and whose judgement I value).

 

[andreasmaaan]

And whilst I buy electronic equipment on measurements, speakers need to be listened to, particularly ones with crude horn designs.

Ok, but my question wasn't whether you'd buy speakers without listening to them. It was whether you'd consider speakers better than "mid-fi" without listening to them.

Is that the case in general, or do you have a double standard that applies only to these speakers?