JTR Noesis 212RT Measurements

[dwill73]

I still consider, as initially stated and until proven wrong, the horn on this particular JRT model mid-fi at best.

I think if you got the chance to hear them in person you would change your opinion. I've read several forums before purchasing these particular models and your the first person to say something negative about them. The bottom line is JTR has hundreds of happy customers so Jeff must be doing something right.

 

[Shazb0t]

Well, you missed the part about the Spinorama...

And whilst I buy electronic equipment on measurements, speakers need to be listened to, particularly ones with crude horn designs.
I won't trust other listeners' assessments with one exception (someone I know personally and whose judgement I value).

I would prefer if you didn't spam the forum with your opinionated guesses stated as fact regarding speakers that you haven't personally heard. That would benefit everyone.

 

[tuga]

I would prefer if you didn't spam the forum with your opinionated guesses stated as fact regarding speakers that you haven't personally heard. That would benefit everyone.

Your preference has been noted.

 

[ared]

I still consider, as initially stated and until proven wrong, the horn on this particular JRT model mid-fi at best.

You still haven't learned to spell the brand name correctly I see.. what a joke

 

[tuga]

You still haven't learned to spell the brand name correctly I see.. what a joke

Let me guess, another fanboy.

 

[ared]

Let me guess, another fanboy.

Not really, just bothered by trolls

 

[dwill73]

Let me guess, another fanboy.

It's not about fan boys. You rub people the wrong way, because you're calling these speakers Mid-fi based strickly on looks without hearing them in person. Were is your data/facts to prove to all of us on this forum, JTR customers, and the reviewer differently ???? That's like calling a car a piece of crap that don't handle the road well and has poor acceleration based on looks without test driving it for yourself. Do you see the logic ????

 

[dwill73]

Personally, I think most DACs probably do sound the same, but there are definitely some that sound different on purpose to differentiate themselves. There's a thread over on AVS using Foobar ABX to test the transparency of the $8 DAC inside the Apple Lightning cable dongle, and so far nobody has been able to pass the test(meaning it's audibly perfect). If Apple can produce an audibly perfect DAC for $8, then I assume most other manufacturers selling $100 or even $1,000+ DACs can as well. If hearing the music exactly how it was intended(transparency) is your goal, then one need not spend more than $8. Hard to believe that $8 buys perfection(at least until we start getting cyborg ears ala Cyberpunk 2077), but it does seem to be the case.

I may eventually try an external DAC, but it would probably be something like the Chord Hugo 2 or something else like it that has multiple presets for different colorations, like "Warm", "Detailed", "Neutral", ect; kinda like a form of tone controls. Plus, it looks cool. There's also the issue of different DACs supporting different formats, features, ect. which is another good reason to choose one DAC over another.

I should have reworded things differently. I've run 3 different A/V receivers, 1 external amp, 2 different CD playes, and a HEOS link with these speakers and noticed some differences with tone and bass. Just trying to learn and see what differences I might hear. Meaning voices were clearer and more pronounced and the bass is faster with a stronger punch, the best I can describe. IMO you should listen to the same recording comparing receivers, DACs, amps, etc. to notice those subtle differences. Everthing I've used so far amp wise is old technology compared to todays standards. Not too say they're bad, but I think A/V receivers, external amps, DACs, and audio equipment in general have came along ways over the past 10 years, but I could be wrong.

 

[jeff permanian]

 

[Matthew J Poes]

And they sounded really good too!

the subwoofer was certainly the star of the show. The new driver is excellent. Distortion on the outdoor groundplane 2 meter 105dB measurement was under .6% at all frequencies. In-room extension to a handful of hz.

the speakers themselves were very good. Wider dispersion in the past but still good controlled directivity. Completely effortless presentation. Neutral signature. I did the calibration on the system for the main day of listening and imparted a lot of my preferences into the room target curve. Compared to what Gene likes with his RBH, it was a much warmer sounding setup. In back to back neither sounded wrong or colored, just different. The spatial presentation was night and day. The RTJ provided a more intimate you are there type experience. The RBH presented a larger but less distinct presentation with poorer proximity. Gene preferred the latter and I preferred the former. As I’ve said before, neither is right, just different.

Jeff did a great job on this setup. I could see this in a dedicated theater making someone very happy. I can’t wait to see the first custom theater decked out in this gear.

 

[HighImpactAV]

I have my RTJ Audio system temporarily setup in my family room while my home theater is being finished. I've had these for several months now, but just moved them to this location this weekend. It is about 7' 8" to the top of the window and I think I have them about 11' apart. I've been to Rocky Mountain Audio Fest and AXPONA multiple years and to the LA Audio Show once. There is nothing I would choose above this system. I built my dream house and now I have my dream speaker system!

 

[Astrozombie]

Wonder if they could have gotten away with just 1 sub underneath.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Wonder if they could have gotten away with just 1 sub underneath.

Of course you can. But where is the fun in that.

the subs are sold as 1,2, or 4. This is the 4 sub setup for those who just want a big impressive tower that has endless dynamics top to bottom.

being serious for a moment. This is a custom install product and your integrator would look at the volume of your room and largely dictate what setup makes the most sense. In very large rooms, you may even need more subs. Im working on a 24,000 cubic foot room, that space would ideally have 8-10 of these subs to hit reference levels down to 25hz.

 

[HighImpactAV]

Wonder if they could have gotten away with just 1 sub underneath.

Yes, the subs don't even have to purchased with the speaker. There are stands available for those not using the RTJ subs. There are benefits to using two subs.

 

[Sal1950]

This is the 4 sub setup for those who just want a big impressive tower that has endless dynamics top to bottom.

Agreed, and not the way I would have them set up. If I had the $ for 4 subs I'd be doing some measurements with the 2 top subs in alternate positions to hopefully smooth room responce. Possibly even trying stands for the mains and checking all 4 subs in alternate spots. I definetly think smoother room response could be achived with a different layout than all 4 stacked up like that.
YMMV

 

[HighImpactAV]

Agreed, and not the way I would have them set up. If I had the $ for 4 subs I'd be doing some measurements with the 2 top subs in alternate positions to hopefully smooth room responce. Possibly even trying stands for the mains and checking all 4 subs in alternate spots. I definetly think smoother room response could be achived with a different layout than all 4 stacked up like that.
YMMV

It's not just "all 4 stacked up like that," but it is all 6 stacked up like that in a theater with an Left, Center, & Right stack. This is by design and generates a proper plane wave in a rectangular room. First, this ameliorates issues caused by the height and width modes. Second, every seat in a row has the exact same bass response with very little row to row difference. Third, every seat has the bass perfectly aligned with the mains, surrounds, and overhead speakers in phase, time, and polarity. Fourth, the acoustical pressure and particle velocity are uniform at all seats from all subwoofers. Fifth, the particle velocity only vibrates along the length axis creating maximum tactile feel at the listeners. Sixth, effective bass absorption can be used at the rear and front of the room to reduce bass decay times for length modes in the wave region.

 

[Sal1950]

It's not just "all 4 stacked up like that," but it is all 6 stacked up like that in a theater with an Left, Center, & Right stack. This is by design and generates a proper plane wave in a rectangular room. First, this ameliorates issues caused by the height and width modes. Second, every seat in a row has the exact same bass response with very little row to row difference. Third, every seat has the bass perfectly aligned with the mains, surrounds, and overhead speakers in phase, time, and polarity. Fourth, the acoustical pressure and particle velocity are uniform at all seats from all subwoofers. Fifth, the particle velocity only vibrates along the length axis creating maximum tactile feel at the listeners. Sixth, effective bass absorption can be used at the rear and front of the room to reduce bass decay times for length modes in the wave region.

If you say so.

 

[amirm]

First, this ameliorates issues caused by the height and width modes. Second, every seat in a row has the exact same bass response with very little row to row difference.

You can only fix some of the modes and only if you place them in specific spots, not where the left and right randomly go.

 

[HighImpactAV]

Neumann trademarked the name Plane Wave Bass Array™ (PWBA), but the system has been widely used ever since the finite-difference time-domain method (FDTM) has been used to simulate low frequency wave propagation in a rectangular room. Floyd Toole says the best performance can be expected when the subwoofers are "arranged to be 25% of the way from floor, ceiling and side walls, thereby attenuating the width and height modes, leaving only the length modes to be avoided." I don't think he ever tested, though. Testing by Neumann and others show that proper plane wave propagation is based on the distance between subwoofers and not cartesian coordinates. Both Neumann and Lambda-Labs Professional Acoustics have done most of the development and implementation. As Amir said in the Neumann KH310A review, "Neumann KH 310A shows the dedication of the design team to absolute objective perfection. " This has certainly been true in their pursuit of the best bass implementation, too.

From the Neumann KH810/870 manual:

 

[HighImpactAV]

The highest frequency to which a plane wave propagates is called fmax. The formula is fmax=c/d with c being the speed of sound and d being the largest of either 1-distance between the speaker and a side wall or ceiling or 2-distance between subwoofers. If you have an 18' 6" wide room and place a the subs' centers 6' 6" apart at the front of the room, then each sub is ~6' from the side wall and closer to the ceiling/floor. The plane wave would then work up to ~174 Hz since 6' 6" is the largest dimension. Any side wall or ceiling damping lowers the effective frequency.