Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

[engulfaudio]

Gary Dayton was the brainchild of this unit. He was formally with Bryston Limited. This is not your typical unit. It has been carefully designed from top to bottom. Masimo has plenty of cash and they let Gary loose

One of our clients just purchased an AV10 from us. He will probably chime in any minute with his take on the unit.

Great review Aamir!

 

[ban25]

Great review, Amir! This unit was at the top of my list early this year when I was shopping for an upgraded AVR/AVP that could handle multiple 4K120 inputs. There was a bit of a waiting list at the time, and as it transpired, Integra announced the DRX-8.4 with class-leading features in its own right. But the AV10 is gorgeous and it would look (and sound) fantastic in my living room. If I needed 16 channels, I'd buy it in a heart-beat.

For folks interested in this AVP, be sure to also check out Gene's coverage (main bench test results linked above). He also published a supplemental update:

And also reviewed the 16-channel amplifier Marantz released alongside the AV10, the AMP10:

 

[617]

I have a question for any EE's -
I always assumed it was hard to get noise and interference down in products with lots of signals moving around each other, is this the case? Is getting 120db/SINAD realistic for a product with a ton of DSP, dozens of connections, wireless capabilities and so on? How much harder is it to protect the integrity of the signal in a product like this - or is it a simple matter of splitting the power/adc/dsp/dac portions as much as possible?

 

[GXAlan]

It’s nice to see the very high output voltage support, even if the SINAD falls after 4V.

It’s neck and neck with the HTP-1 with the Monolith doing better at low voltages below 1V.
It’s not an apples to apples comparison due to different test setups but certainly neck and neck. My Yamaha CX-A5100 actually beats my Monolith HTP-1 below 0.5V. Noise is the hardest to compare because I run a larger FFT with the E1DA Cosmos to roughly approximate the numbers you get from the lower noise APx555 with a smaller FFT.

Note that when you tell Monolith to send a maximum of 7V in the setup interfaces it actually only reaches 4.1V

 

[michaelahess]

Way too much, these guys could sell a ton more if it was a reasonable price point.

 

[3125b]

The headphone amp output impedance is around 80 Ohms.
Two software screwups though that I wouldn't have expected at this price are the clipping (just limit the output before that) and the bad default filter. Those are two really audible issues that are just utterly unnecessary and why I rate it "fine".

 

[Koeitje]

Expensive, but at least shows they can engineer something that's simply very good. Too bad about the filter (don't know why they use the bad one by default) and the HDMI noise, but baseline performance is there.

 

[Hart]

I saw the new Marantz line last week, they do look really good. Not sure why more companies don't spend a small amount of time on good design. Maybe it's a left brain-right brain thing. I wonder if Marantz went back to the processor drawing board because of ASR? Their last processor, the 7705 was terrible. All the magazines give everything a glowing review, so it must be ASR that motivates them? Otherwise why bother re-engineering if every other publication is going to say it's a great product?

 

[PJ 1]

Way too much, these guys could sell a ton more if it was a reasonable price point.

Compared to what? For me, it is a nice compromise from the Trinnov and Storm AVPs I was shopping. Anthem's AVM 90 is more and in my opinion, offers less. (Marantz now offers both Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 and Dirac Live and soon, DLBC. Gene and Matt Poes did a YouTube video detailing that Audyssey actually did BETTER than Dirac in the AV-10. Worth a look.) Now that we have two excellent bench tests (Gene's and Amir's) combined with Marantz/Denon's reliability, I think this is a great price point. If you are looking for similar but cheaper, the Monolith HTP-1 is a solid performer but not without growing pains early on. I owned an Emotiva XMC-1 that worked good... WHEN IT WORKED. When it didn't or got "stuck" it was a real pain. Forget the fact that the family doesn't tolerate resetting and reboots when all they want is Netflix. My previous Marantz 8805a and now my Denon's AVR 4700H just WORK. No fuss.

 

[Koeitje]

Compared to what? For me, it is a nice compromise from the Trinnov and Storm AVPs I was shopping. Anthem's AVM 90 is more and in my opinion, offers less. (Marantz now offers both Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 and Dirac Live and soon, DLBC. Gene and Matt Poes did a YouTube video detailing that Audyssey actually did BETTER than Dirac in the AV-10. Worth a look.) Now that we have two excellent bench tests (Gene's and Amir's) combined with Marantz/Denon's reliability, I think this is a great price point. If you are looking for similar but cheaper, the Monolith HTP-1 is a solid performer but not without growing pains early on. I owned an Emotiva XMC-1 that worked good... WHEN IT WORKED. When it didn't or got "stuck" it was a real pain. Forget the fact that the family doesn't tolerate resetting and reboots when all they want is Netflix. My previous Marantz 8805a and now my Denon's AVR 4700H just WORK. No fuss.

Its because the markup on this is about 90%.

 

[LTig]

Very nice. If I didn't already own a good AVP for my 2.1 system I'd wait for a downscaled version at half price (AV7?) ...

 

[PJ 1]

Its because the markup on this is about 90%.

90%??? You really think so? That logic leaves only Dollar General as a reasonable deal. What about Amir's Salon 2s? Or my Perlisten S7t? I guess I got taken huh. 90% markup stretches credulity...

 

[Koeitje]

90%??? You really think so? That logic leaves only Dollar General as a reasonable deal. What about Amir's Salon 2s? Or my Perlisten S7t? I guess I got taken huh. 90% markup stretches credulity...

Yes, those are all insanely high margin products. The margin a retailer makes on like a basic mid-range B&W loudspeaker is already 20-40% if they sell them as MSRP (unless it has dropped significantly over the past years), anything above that is just pure margin. That's just how that works for these kind of products. Especially products that require zero manual craftmanship.

Let me ask you, what do you think the BOM and production cost for an AV10 is?

 

[GXAlan]

Compared to what? For me, it is a nice compromise from the Trinnov and Storm AVPs I was shopping. Anthem's AVM 90 is more and in my opinion, offers less. (Marantz now offers both Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 and Dirac Live and soon, DLBC. Gene and Matt Poes did a YouTube video detailing that Audyssey actually did BETTER than Dirac in the AV-10. Worth a look.) Now that we have two excellent bench tests (Gene's and Amir's) combined with Marantz/Denon's reliability, I think this is a great price point. If you are looking for similar but cheaper, the Monolith HTP-1 is a solid performer but not without growing pains early on. I owned an Emotiva XMC-1 that worked good... WHEN IT WORKED. When it didn't or got "stuck" it was a real pain. Forget the fact that the family doesn't tolerate resetting and reboots when all they want is Netflix. My previous Marantz 8805a and now my Denon's AVR 4700H just WORK. No fuss.

Agree with this even though I have the HTP-1. I previously had the Marantz PM-10/SA-10 combo, so you can call me a Marantz fan. I have had lots of Denon and Marantz gear as well, dating before their merger.

1) +1 on Audyssey. People seem to look down on Audyssey because it's "free" and used to be available on entry-level products. It was one of the first do handle multiple subs well and did a great job with their dynamic EQ. I think the problem was that prior to the iOS app, it was hard to turn off the mid-range dip or adjust the target curve so a lot of the default settings were not to everyone's preference. Once RatBuddysey came out which let you create your own target curve to use with the iOS app, everything changed. With MultEQ-X, it got even better.

People will point out Dirac Live Bass Control as a novel feature that Audyssey has failed to match. I bought DLBC and honestly do not find it a meaningful improvement over my standard Dirac given that I have full range speakers in my bed layer going below 30 Hz *AND* commercially recorded content rarely needs your bed layer to reproduce in the 16-30Hz range. That is, running full range + LFE for the effects is pretty much indistinguishable from Dirac Live Bass Control running with 35 Hz or 70 Hz crossovers.

Where Dirac should beat Audyssey is Active Room Treatment. Right now, only Storm has it working. Monolith is supposed to get it, but hasn't shipped yet. Rumors are that the AV10 will get it, but that's just rumor.

2) Reliability is critical. What gear would you buy for your family members if you didn't want to be on 24/7 tech support standby? D&M products, including HDMI CEC, are truly gold standard products. There are plenty of stories of failures and once Denon stopped allowing local shops to act as service centers and needed you to send things into depots, the overall service level dropped. However, I believe that the D&M reliability and servicability still remain leagues ahead of just about anything else other in the mainstream to premium price points.

3) The HTP-1's growing pains are largely addressed now, where anyone on ASR would probably be comfortable running it as their primary AV processor. It still forgets its IP address sometimes if the router is rebooted for any reason, requiring a power cycle, the HDMI CEC isn't quite as flawless as Denon or Marantz. I still would choose a D&M product over the HTP-1 for a non-technical person.

 

[jhwalker]

90%??? You really think so? That logic leaves only Dollar General as a reasonable deal. What about Amir's Salon 2s? Or my Perlisten S7t? I guess I got taken huh. 90% markup stretches credulity...

I would think it's MUCH higher than 90%.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

At a minimum, Marantz needs to offer the unit with Dirac DLBC and, preferably with Dirac ART. Really for this kind of money it should have Trinov functionality. But at least we are making progress in that we have a unit that includes something other than 1980's quality DACS with performance compromised by the units DSP. Looks like it can handle 9 base level speakers 4 subs and 8 heights. Their website indicates it can do ATMOS, DTS-X Pro, Auro 3D, and IMAX enhanced. Again the size of a small refrigerator, but at least the display does not look like it belongs in the cockpit of a 767.

Unfortunately only Dirac Live with none of the advanced add on's. Marantz will probably be willing to sell you a new processor a year or so down the road with DLBC, and a year after that one with ART.

 

[PJ 1]

I would think it's MUCH higher than 90%.

Much higher than 90%? That means that OVER 90% is all profit and not cost? Is that what you are stating? I'd LOVE to invest in Masimo if that is the case! They must be printing money over there!

 

[ban25]

At a minimum, Marantz needs to offer the unit with Dirac DLBC and, preferably with Dirac ART. Really for this kind of money it should have Trinov functionality. But at least we are making progress in that we have a unit that includes something other than 1980's quality DACS with performance compromised by the units DSP. Looks like it can handle 9 base level speakers 4 subs and 8 heights. Their website indicates it can do ATMOS, DTS-X Pro, Auro 3D, and IMAX enhanced. Again the size of a small refrigerator, but at least the display does not look like it belongs in the cockpit of a 767.

Unfortunately only Dirac Live with none of the advanced add on's. Marantz will probably be willing to sell you a new processor a year or so down the road with DLBC, and a year after that one with ART.

DLBC has been officially announced as coming to the AV10 (and all D+M products from the X3800H/C50 on up). ART has been unofficially announced by Marantz staff in Europe.

 

[PJ 1]

Yes, those are all insanely high margin products. The margin a retailer makes on like a basic mid-range B&W loudspeaker is already 20-40% if they sell them as MSRP (unless it has dropped significantly over the past years), anything above that is just pure margin. That's just how that works for these kind of products. Especially products that require zero manual craftmanship.

Let me ask you, what do you think the BOM and production cost for an AV10 is?

More than $700. 20-40% is not 90%. And 40% is on the HIGH end of consumer products. For someone that cites Rudolf Dreikurs, perhaps you are commenting from a bias position. Regardless, I think it's reasonable for the performance and features offered comparatively to the rest of the AVPs in production today. You are welcome to your opinion on price to cost and whether or not it represents "value". Sometimes, ignorance is bliss and knowing the true cost can limit one's enjoyment. But that's me... Cheers.

 

[Koeitje]

More than $700. 20-40% is not 90%. And 40% is on the HIGH end of consumer products. For someone that cites Rudolf Dreikurs, perhaps you are commenting from a bias position. Regardless, I think it's reasonable for the performance and features offered comparatively to the rest of the AVPs in production today. You are welcome to your opinion on price to cost and whether or not it represents "value". Sometimes, ignorance is bliss and knowing the true cost can limit one's enjoyment. But that's me... Cheers.

I think 700 is going to be pretty close. Regardless, even it was double that the pricing would still be insane. I understand why Marantz does it like that, because people will pay it. That's how the high-end market works, high-end = high margins. Always has been and always will be.

And bias? Perhaps, I'm basing it on my experience in retail .