Is REL being more 'musical' than SVS a myth, or is there some real science behind this?

[fpitas]

And I can't believe we made it this far without a musical fruit joke.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Is REL being more 'musical' than SVS a myth, or is there some real science behind this?

Don't know what a "musical" sub is... But there is some real science showing that some REL suck:

 

[fpitas]

Don't know what a "musical" sub is...

I think I touched on that in post #521

 

[GXAlan]

Don't know what a "musical" sub is... But there is some real science showing that some REL suck:

In its defense, it’s a 6.5” woofer at $450. The SVS he compares to is 2x the price. The KF62 is 3x the price.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I there a tldr?

 

[DonH56]

I there a tldr?

Myth.

 

[morpheusX]

I had to laugh at the start of the video, where he's handling the "subwoofer" like it was a toy :-D

 

[ferrellms]

Seems to be a real consensus, reading around, listening to what people have to say, I know it's sensible to not put much stock into reviews and video reviews, that being said, this seems to be such an overwhelming consensus that for movies SVS is a better choice and for music REL is a better choice.

What do the guys on here think, are REL subs generally more 'musical' than SVS? (I personally deem this to mean, more articulate and accurate, why anyone would want a less accurate sub for movies I can't understand but that's me personally)

Interested to get some opinions

"Musical"? What does that even mean?

The answer is plain to hear.

 

[antcollinet]

You know what is really really musical? In fact the most musical thing on the planet?

Music.

Reproduction gear is not musical. It is either accurate, or it is not. It either reproduces the stuff that is music accurately, or it messes it up.

 

[polmuaddib]

But there is some real science showing that some REL suck:

Are you sure you watched the whole video carerfully?
Erin did point out that that small REL's response was even at all levels, even though it's limited output.
Yes, it can't reproduce 20 Hz, but it is a small sub.
I actually found it surprisingly good for the size. And it delivered on published specs.

 

[jhaider]

Don't know what a "musical" sub is... But there is some real science showing that some REL suck:

There is one thing about it that I like - no frequency-based limiting.

Multisubs, I think we can all agree, are the way to get strong and clean bass over a reasonably sized listening area. However, multisubs have to be carefully calibrated based on measurements. If the frequency response of the sub at the calibration volume level varies substantially from the behavior of the sub at different playback volumes, the calibration will be thrown out of whack. So a lot of these small subs aren't well-suited for use in multisub systems, unfortunately. This one seems to be better for that application than most.

Their gaudy dustcaps continue to remind me of flea market car audio dross though.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

Don't know what a "musical" sub is... But there is some real science showing that some REL suck:

This is just sad.

This shows a total disconnect from reality in the marketing of those products.

There is a general side here; how marketing is done, the typical reviews, misleading information.

Then there is the objective, technical side of the story. Frequency response and capacity measurements tells a lot, but there is more. Noticed that typical, small subwoofers tend to sound "slow", sluggish? They often do, and there is a reason for that, I try to explain why in this short text:
https://www.kvalsvoll.com/blog/forum/topic/compact-horn-subwooferene/?part=3#postid-536

The numbers seemed a bit low (for capacity), but after taking a brief look at other testes from Erin, his measurements looks legit.

 

[cavedriver]

This is just sad.

This shows a total disconnect from reality in the marketing of those products.

There is a general side here; how marketing is done, the typical reviews, misleading information.

Then there is the objective, technical side of the story. Frequency response and capacity measurements tells a lot, but there is more. Noticed that typical, small subwoofers tend to sound "slow", sluggish? They often do, and there is a reason for that, I try to explain why in this short text:
https://www.kvalsvoll.com/blog/forum/topic/compact-horn-subwooferene/?part=3#postid-536

The numbers seemed a bit low (for capacity), but after taking a brief look at other testes from Erin, his measurements looks legit.

wow, I read more of your page using google's translation and some of the design language doesn't quite come across. Interesting topic and designs, but are there any commonly encountered commercial examples of your "short horn subwoofers"?

 

[3125b]

This one seems to be better for that application than most.

But you'd need three times as many as you would KEF KC62 for example. They might be small, but putting twelve or so in one room would still not be easy

 

[Kvalsvoll]

wow, I read more of your page using google's translation and some of the design language doesn't quite come across. Interesting topic and designs, but are there any commonly encountered commercial examples of your "short horn subwoofers"?

A variety of Compact Horn subwoofer units and complete bass-system solutions have been delivered in limited numbers, to a few customers in Norway. They are sold under my brand name. I do tech development and product design, this is clarified better in new updated text on the product pages.

It was a mistake to mix languages on the forum pages, and for tech articles. This can be fixed. Until I put in the effort required to do so, all the norwegian text will cause problems for ROW. If you use Chrome/Vivaldi: Select "Norsk text" (norwegian language), then you get the option to translate from NO to EN. Then the translation will be mediocre, it does not understand technical text well, and it is not so good at norwegian language.

 

[telephunke]

Took me several days to read this thread from start to finish, what a journey. Stepping back it all kind of makes sense with respect to the OP question to me (I think). Thanks to all!

I'm considering SVS pro 1000 or 2000 to run off an RME ADI 2 DAC via the RCA out. The main speakers would be Acoustic energy AE1 active on the XLR.

I can do EQ in the RME but it applies to both outs. Given this limitation and the bass management on the pro SVS, can i dial this system in in a way a lot of people on this thread are suggesting (mic with REW or similar techniques).

Thanks again

 

[polmuaddib]

I'm considering SVS pro 1000 or 2000 to run off an RME ADI 2 DAC via the RCA out. The main speakers would be Acoustic energy AE1 active on the XLR

I would advise to consider a sub that has XLR input.
SVS might make great sounding subs and all that, but in this day and age, when we use different sources and USB as a connection, ground loops are lurking everywhere.
That is my main problem with commercial subs because they offer XLR input only on bigger, high end models.
Pro audio has many small studio subs that feature XLR input and XLR output, so you could use RME's XLR output to sub and from sub to speakers.
Dynaudio 9s comes to mind... I don't know how it measures, but on paper seems ok.

 

[goat76]

I use two REL subwoofers in my highly musical sound system, and they work great!

I let my main speakers go as low as they go without any high-pass filter, and the subwoofers only takes over below that point. I have them set up in a true stereo configuration where the left sub only gets the left channel signal, and the right get the right. I also have them physically close by right outside each main speaker and this is the best integration I have ever had with subwoofers in my system, it sounds perfect and I have never any urge anymore to fiddle with the levels or anything else.

I only used my ears to find the right position for phase alinement, but I will try to measure it some day and see if I can get it even better. Any suggestions on how that can be done using REW?

 

[DSJR]

You know what is really really musical? In fact the most musical thing on the planet?

Music.

Reproduction gear is not musical. It is either accurate, or it is not. It either reproduces the stuff that is music accurately, or it messes it up.

But as all speakers have character still, it is possible to tune the nasties in such a way that the reproduced sound 'charms' the ear better than other competing models though.

Live unamplified music isn't 'musical' as a reproduction system can make it and it's this finding that gave me an epiphany moment all those years ago and took me on another journey with my sound systems back then (although for now detoured, pending a total re-evaluation here).

Back to topic and a very late reply - I found that there were REL subs and REL subs, the cheapest ones being awful thump/rumble boxes and useless for lf organ reproduction for example, the result being a rumble rather than a perceived tone. The far more expensive and larger REL's were totally different. There was a small M&K sub which tried really hard at REL prices, but it looked old fashioned though.

 

[telephunke]

I would advise to consider a sub that has XLR input.
SVS might make great sounding subs and all that, but in this day and age, when we use different sources and USB as a connection, ground loops are lurking everywhere.
That is my main problem with commercial subs because they offer XLR input only on bigger, high end models.
Pro audio has many small studio subs that feature XLR input and XLR output, so you could use RME's XLR output to sub and from sub to speakers.
Dynaudio 9s comes to mind... I don't know how it measures, but on paper seems ok.

If i hadn't already bought the AE1s I would probably go all in on genelec or dynaudio monitors and sub(s).

I hadn't realised you could go to subs first then monitors on xlr, but a bit unsure how i would go dialing all that in with EQ or DSP when using the AE1s or 9s as an example. The AE1 has +/- 3db switch for both bass and treble for what that's worth, but no dsp etc. Would have to do what i can from the RME.