Is REL being more 'musical' than SVS a myth, or is there some real science behind this?

[Hotwetrat]

Seems to be a real consensus, reading around, listening to what people have to say, I know it's sensible to not put much stock into reviews and video reviews, that being said, this seems to be such an overwhelming consensus that for movies SVS is a better choice and for music REL is a better choice.

What do the guys on here think, are REL subs generally more 'musical' than SVS? (I personally deem this to mean, more articulate and accurate, why anyone would want a less accurate sub for movies I can't understand but that's me personally)

Interested to get some opinions

 

[Sancus]

Usually "more musical" means "this sub has less low-bass output and since I don't use room EQ like I should, my room modes ruin the low bass if it's loud."

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/10-nonsense-myths

I've only ever seen measurements of one REL sub(T/7), and it fits that stereotype being an 8" for £850(!? lol what) with a pathetic 68dB 2m peak output at 20hz. The SB-1000 beats that by over 20dB. Now, it is true that SVS sealed subs have more group delay in the very lowest bass than is typical, but so far there isn't too much evidence it's audible. There are plenty of other good sub manufacturers that don't have this problem.

Personally, if I was buying subs with EU distribution right now I would look at Arendal's 1961 or 1723 1S first. For less money than the T/7i you can get a real 12" subwoofer with excellent measurements and fairly convenient dimensions. E: If you are in the US, then you have a million great options like PSA, JTR, Rythmik, Hsu, etc...

 

[Hotwetrat]

Usually "more musical" means "this sub has less low-bass output and since I don't use room EQ like I should, my room modes ruin the low bass if it's loud."

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/10-nonsense-myths

I've only ever seen measurements of one REL sub(T/7i), and it fits that stereotype being an 8" for £850(!? lol what) with a pathetic 68dB 2m peak output at 20hz. The SB-1000 beats that by over 20dB. Now, it is true that SVS sealed subs have more group delay in the very lowest bass than is typical, but so far there isn't too much evidence it's audible. There are plenty of other good sub manufacturers that don't have this problem.

Personally, if I was buying subs with EU distribution right now I would look at Arendal's 1961 or 1723 1S first. For less money than the T/7i you can get a real 12" subwoofer with excellent measurements and fairly convenient dimensions. E: If you are in the US, then you have a million great options like PSA, JTR, Rythmik, Hsu, etc...

This is really great information thanks, did I see the price right on that Adrenal 1961.... I can get the SVS SB1000 Pro for £500 Same for the T5i

 

[Sancus]

This is really great information thanks, did I see the price right on that Adrenal 1961.... I can get the SVS SB1000 Pro for £500

Yea the 1961 1S is €800 which is like ~£686. It's more similar to the SB-3000 in output capability, however. If this is primarily for music, then I'd say either one is probably adequate unless your room is quite large or you like very loud, low bass, in which case I'd go with the Arendal.

Subwoofer Comparison thread is great btw. If you want to read about how to understand the measurements, Audioholics has a lot of good information including an explanation of the tests applied to subwoofers. CEA2010 and to a much lesser extent group delay are the important ones.

 

[richard12511]

Seems to be a real consensus, reading around, listening to what people have to say, I know it's sensible to not put much stock into reviews and video reviews, that being said, this seems to be such an overwhelming consensus that for movies SVS is a better choice and for music REL is a better choice.

What do the guys on here think, are REL subs generally more 'musical' than SVS? (I personally deem this to mean, more articulate and accurate, why anyone would want a less accurate sub for movies I can't understand but that's me personally)

Interested to get some opinions

The SVS subs are imo just as accurate, and reach lower, and do it with significantly less distortion. If I had to bet, I'd guess the SVS actually sound more articulate, due to having significantly less distortion. True bass accuracy is (imo) heavily dependent on the quality of EQ you're using. Do you know what you'll be using for EQ? One nice thing about SVS subs is they have built in PEQ(via phone app) that you can use to flatten them out in room.

IMO, REL has a reputation for being "musical" simply because they put a lot of money into advertising themselves as such. I've seen nothing technical to justify that reputation. Would love to be proven wrong, though.

Take a look at @sweetchaos 's subwoofer comparison thread that @Sancus posted above. That's CEA-2010 data for a ton of different subs at all price ranges. CEA2010 is the gold standard for subwoofer sound quality, similar to CEA2034 for loudspeakers.

 

[Hotwetrat]

The SVS subs are imo just as accurate, and reach lower, and do it with significantly less distortion. If I had to bet, I'd guess the SVS actually sound more articulate, due to having significantly less distortion. True bass accuracy is (imo) heavily dependent on the quality of EQ you're using. Do you know what you'll be using for EQ? One nice thing about SVS subs is they have built in PEQ(via phone app) that you can use to flatten them out in room.

IMO, REL has a reputation for being "musical" simply because they put a lot of money into advertising themselves as such. I've seen nothing technical to justify that reputation. Would love to be proven wrong, though.

Take a look at @sweetchaos 's subwoofer comparison thread that @Sancus posted above. That's CEA-2010 data for a ton of different subs at all price ranges. CEA2010 is the gold standard for subwoofer sound quality, similar to CEA2034 for loudspeakers.

Great insight thanks!

 

[Chrispy]

I've never found Rel even worthy of consideration due lack of performance and high prices. The one time I "auditioned" a Rel I was underwhelmed by its performance but that really wasn't much of an evaluation, could easily have been bonehead store setup (Bestbuy/Magnolia). They do have a head start in the "audiophile" press, but they seem to have little to back up the claims.....sounds like some of the ported vs sealed sub nonsense for movies vs music, too. So much better out there than Rel....

 

[MZKM]

None of their subs, even their multi-thousand dollar flagship, have phase adjustment, all just polarity. This is very crucial to getting ideal integration in a system without bass management. I just can’t wrap my head around why such a feature is omitted. Their higher end models do have 2 PEQ adjustments, but thru a physical remote (their website literally says they won’t create an app as they don’t want to spend money in keeping it up to date).

Don’t know if it was the company owner, but I saw one video with someone from the company talking what shat makes their subs great, and he even stated that their enclosures are musical (rather than inert).

 

[Chrispy]

None of their subs, even their multi-thousand dollar flagship, have phase adjustment, all just polarity. This is very crucial to getting ideal integration in a system without bass management . I just can’t wrap my head around why such a feature is omitted.

What, you don't believe in their magic high level connections?

 

[Chrispy]

Then again wtf does "musical" mean in a sub or a piece of electronics? I hate that description as its pretty much useless....

 

[theyellowspecial]

I've never had a REL, but I've had multiple subs from $150-$900 and, SPL and extension matched, they all sound the same after room control EQ.

 

[Chrispy]

I've never had a REL, but I've had multiple subs from $150-$900 and, SPL and extension matched, they all sound the same after room control EQ.

I think you can define your subs better by a combination of your extension and spl goals to begin with, let alone what subs might get there....

 

[sweetchaos]

My $1k HSU ported sub sounds pretty musical to me...with the right music.

 

[Chrispy]

Gosh, when I listen to music all my gear is musical....it's frikken magic.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I have owned SVS cylinder sub and normal 12" ported sub. Both can go 20hz fine. Sold both because I couldn't get them to blend well for music. Too muddy for my taste.

 

[rynberg]

REL is one of the longest running scam companies in audio, IMO. Their products have always been overpriced and poorly engineered. I assume they are still advising a system concept that is utterly wrong for high fidelity?

 

[Steve81]

I've only ever seen measurements of one REL sub(T/7i), and it fits that stereotype being an 8" for £850(!? lol what) with a pathetic 68dB 2m peak output at 20hz.

I recall Ilkka Rissanen measured a couple RELs way back when, and the performance of those models was pretty tepid too (not even factoring in the price). Doesn't sound like they changed their formula much over the years

 

[Mnyb]

When my REL stadium III broke I replaced it with a rhythmic 15” . I have not lost any “musicality”.

The rhythmic costed me 1/2 the price compared to what I paid for the REL 15 years earlier and that included horrible shipping cost to Sweden

 

[Chrise36]

Rel used to to use high quality drivers and heavy cabins nowdays not worth it except from some models they offer in reduced prices like the ht1003.SVS are cheaply also and i have concerns over their amplifiers and huge power they use. In Europe i would consider BK electronics subs cause they use much heavier cabins than any of the major brands renowned drivers and serviceable electronics.

 

[Hotwetrat]

This has all been a fantastic insight into the opinions of more experienced folk, I appreciate the replies.

I have owned SVS cylinder sub and normal 12" ported sub. Both can go 20hz fine. Sold both because I couldn't get them to blend well for music. Too muddy for my taste.

This is unquestionably a bit worrying mind as due to several factors I went for the SVS SB1000 Pro for £500. One of those factors being I can try it for a couple of weeks and send it back if I am not happy.

May I ask how you eventually overcame this 'muddy' issue? What SUB, any sub etc ?