Harbeth speakers

[ThoFi]

Oh, I just saw the thread about the coloration topic

What is Alan Shaw on about? (is "coloration" unmeasurable?)

..in this thread https://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/threads/incoming-call-from-confused-audiophile.80461/ It starts with this: As the last person in the office today, I took a call from a consumer who had called earlier in the day but whoever he spoke to was not able to give him a meaningful...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Latest post from A.S. about this topic.
The consumer auditioned a Harbeth speaker and bought it.
What a beautiful way to end the story, to promote his speakers

 

[TheBatsEar]

Alan from Harbeth looks like the same storyteller for his community as Paul from PS Audio.

Sadly, such is the nature of the salesman.

 

[ThoFi]

But Alan is wiser than Paul because he promotes his genius only at his moderated forum and not public on YouTube

 

[ahofer]

I have some sympathy. His following includes so many rabid subjectivists (see:Harbeth Facebook Group), he has to balance his statements.

 

[DSJR]

Alan designed all his post 1988 models - OK, using tried and well trodden techniques and alone until a few years ago - but the brand went from strength to strength and owners generally used to keep their speaker purchases for life, at least until the recent and unfortunately necessary price rises introduced a new tier of owners who'd not have considered the brand as it was too cheap and 'olde worlde' before... He doesn't publish his own detailed measurements, but most models from each generation have found their way to third party appraisals with measurements which are generally very good and really rather better than his immediate competitor's 'BeebeeCee' derived re-inventions (which apparently don't sell in anything like the volumes as Harbeths do or did).

Sure he markets his speakers seriously well, but if there's a criticism of old, it was that he was perceived almost as a one man band (with assembly and office staff in the factory well behind him). In recent years, he's taken on qualified and experienced engineering staff to research and work alongside him and I believe more than ever, the company itself is a family run concern, even if Alan's still the prime focus for it all. I seriously wouldn't put him anywhere near Mr McG in terms of comparison, as his creations do generally test well elsewhere (apologies for repeating myself) and yeah, stand the test of time too.

 

[ahofer]

In recent years, he's taken on qualified and experienced engineering staff to research and work alongside him and I believe more than ever, the company itself is a family run concern, even if Alan's still the prime focus for it all. I seriously wouldn't put him anywhere near Mr McG in terms of comparison, as his creations do generally test well elsewhere (apologies for repeating myself) and yeah, stand the test of time too.

I view Harbeth as a small firm, hyperfocused on a few things to optimize old designs. So maniacal focus on materials, enclosure damping, and crossover tweaking, but abjures new design techniques such as klippel, directional optimization, waveguides, that might imply completely different designs. I expect it's the financial investment and an ornery streak that get in the way.

 

[DSJR]

We don't know what's coming in the future. He's already said the current designs can't really be taken further as you may remember and old fashioned or not, the XD models sound bloomin' good to me.

 

[ahofer]

We don't know what's coming in the future. He's already said the current designs can't really be taken further as you may remember and old fashioned or not, the XD models sound bloomin' good to me.

Apparently there's a new, nearly full range, speaker in the works..

https://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/threads/an-insight-into-the-harbeth-design-approach.80470/

 

[TheBatsEar]

250Hz and 3200Hz.

 

[ahofer]

View attachment 195799
250Hz and 3200Hz.

Extra points for any Blackadder reference. The thread, of course, is closed.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Extra points for any Blackadder reference. The thread, of course, is closed.

Salesman or not, i would still get one of the tiny Harbeth speakers for the office if a pair came up for a good price. They aren't bad by any metric and I'm a sucker for nice things

 

[ThoFi]

Salesman or not, i would still get one of the tiny Harbeth speakers for the office if a pair came up for a good price. They aren't bad by any metric and I'm a sucker for nice things

starts at €3115!!!!

 

[TheBatsEar]

starts at €3115!!!!

I know, that's why i don't have them!

 

[ThoFi]

View attachment 195900
I know, that's why i don't have them!

nice image again
the p3esr did cost €1650…the prices at Harbeth increased extremely.
and I do not see that huge innovations.
As far as I know only one man A.S. develope the speakers by finetune the crossover….and finally judge by ear.
He tells about some minor 0.xdB tuning and you are able to hear that. I doubt you will.
There are better options out there.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Around 2008 I decided I wanted to upgrade my speakers and started listening to various models. I heard Harbeth Super HL5 Aniversary Edition at an audio show and was impressed by them more than any other speaker I heard in that price range. As I recall the only serious rival was a Revel but I don't remember the model. I have had them ever since and am happy with them and have no plans to upgrade them.

I agree that the directionality is not great and can add that hight also is important, I noticed a distinct change when we replaced a sofa with one slightly lower. On the other hand they work very well with cheap and basic amplification, in 2008 I was using an entry level NAD and the last few years I have been using a budget Onkyo AV and both work fine (although the NAD was a better match).

When you consider the long time I have had them, and hopefully will continue to have them, and the easy load they are for amplifiers, maybe they are cheaper then they seem at first glance.....

 

[DSJR]

I didn't think it appropriate to post this competitor review on the HUG, but was shocked at what I saw -

Rogers LS 5/9 review

Do-it-yourself high-frequency sound

www.whathifi.com

£4800pr I believe!

The driver chassis looks to be a pressed affair rather than the casting of the originals (and Graham re-imaginations), the response is worse than the original with a decided peak in the 9kHz region and to finiash it off, the price I think is a grand or so more than the smoother Graham Audio version (Volt made main driver) and a good few hundred quid more than the almost flat response current Harbeth 30.2XD.

 

[Digi]

Harbeth is one of my favorite speaker brands.

Even so, I owned the Harbeth SuperHL5plus for a while (which sounded the most evenly balanced and neutral to my ears among the line), and sold it.

It did the things I love from Harbeth, beautiful with instrumental tone/timbre, and capturing a natural sense of vocals. But in shoot outs with my bigger Thiel 3.7s (which I was seeing if I could replace), I found the Thiels did much of what the Harbeth did but "better." By "better" I mean the Thiels also sounded fundamentally "right" with instrumental timbre/tone, but also sounded more clean, focused, precise and realistic. In comparison the Harbeth speakers had what I might call a "thickness" or "texture"...just barely there...that sort of connected all the sound, as if it was occurring between the instruments as well. This "thickness/texture" seemed to just clear up on the Thiels, giving the cleaner more precise sense of instruments performing in an acoustic space.

My hunch is that I was hearing the difference between the thin-walled design of the Harbeth vs the more "modern" approach of the Thiels which attempt to heavily brace to remove any box signature. So perhaps it was hearing just enough of those Harbeth walls "singing along" with the sound causing that slight texture connecting the sound. But I don't really know.

In any case, as much as I like the Thiels (and my other speakers) for most music, I still felt the Harbeths produced vocals with a more natural, human sound than the Thiels. Sometimes I miss that aspect of the Harbeths. I'd like them more as a second-system speaker.

Hi, Would you say that these Harbeth's SHL5plus XD Loudspeakers are good for Rock, Prog Rock and Jazz music? How would you compare these to Kef Reference 1 or Reference 1 meta speakers for all genres of music? Thanks.

 

[MattHooper]

Hi, Would you say that these Harbeth's SHL5plus XD Loudspeakers are good for Rock, Prog Rock and Jazz music? How would you compare these to Kef Reference 1 or Reference 1 meta speakers for all genres of music? Thanks.

The problem with "is a speaker good or bad for X" claim is that it's generally totally subjective.

One person may be perfectly satisfied with Rock on "X" speaker, another person may not. Depends on what you are looking for.

The Harbeth speakers are a perfect example of this subjectivity. Some people see Harbeth as "pipe and slippers" speakers - comfy and fine if you are listening to mostly acoustic music or music of limited bandwidth and dynamics, but restricted to that. Whereas many Harbeth owners buy Harbeth precisely because they find them to do well on all types of music. They bought Harbeth because they found OTHER speakers tended to sound good on some music, not others. So...subjective call.

All I can give is my own opinion.

I'm in the latter camp about Harbeth. One of the main characteristics that attracted me to the Harbeth speakers was "balance" - the sense that within their frequency limits, everything was presented with richness and density. No area stuck out from another, and for me they seemed to make the mixes on recordings "make sense," if you know what I mean - each instrument seemed to be given what seemed like it's proper due in the presentation. So I found this balanced presentation sounded great on every genre I played, which included tons of rock and prog rock, funk, pop, electronica etc. If I were expecting a P.A. type level of punch and dynamics I'd be disappointed; but that would be an unrealistic expectation given the size and design of the SuperHL5+. I found there was plenty of air-moving bass texture, mid/upper bass punch, midrange richness, and high frequency clarity and presence to make for very compelling listening for all genres.

 

[ThoFi]

Harbeth came up with a new product. Sub+stand
Only 50W?
3.995€

Nelson subwoofer stand solution

The Nelson bass extender + stand solution delivers intense bass performance for mini monitors without compromising space.

harbeth.co.uk

 

[ahofer]

Harbeth came up with a new product. Sub+stand
Only 50W?
3.995€

Nelson subwoofer stand solution

The Nelson bass extender + stand solution delivers intense bass performance for mini monitors without compromising space.

harbeth.co.uk

They are specifically dedicated and crossed over to the smallest Harbeth - the P3ESR.

But yeah, everything is made in the UK and marked up comfortably, thanks to Harbeth’s weird reputation with the snake oil set. (“So musical”)

Don’t get me wrong, I like Harbeths and have a set. But it’s the clean, even response through the midrange, wide (if uneven) dispersion, and gentle house curve that I like, not magic.

My Revels are better, though. The curve can be EQ’d, and they don’t have the dispersion anomalies that create a sort of low-reflection BBC Dip and treble roll-off in my Harbeths and the P3 (See the “+” in the graph). You sort of have to be in the sweet spot for Harbeths.

Harbeth Super HL5plus loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Harbeth Super HL5plus's frequency response in the farfield; and an Earthworks QTC-40, with its small, ¼"-diameter capsule, for the nearfield responses.

www.stereophile.com

Harbeth P3ESR loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com