WiiM Ultra

[Brantome]

Does that make Roon the only non-Apple Airplay 2 transmitter? I hope they have a license!

The same question that was posted on the WiiM Forums about whether Airplay 2 transmission was certified was also posted on the Roon Community forum (and possibly elsewhere) by the same person and got this response from Roon:

Airplay/Airplay 2 in Roon is it Apple sanctioned?

Apple does not license Airplay as a sender, but you are free to implement it on your own. In the US, the DMCA allows for reverse engineering for compatibility purposes as long as you do not need to break encryption. We did not break encryption to make this work.

community.roonlabs.com

 

[Joffy1780]

end for me... you will see that with the reviews - measurements, future....

Well, that's disappointing.
You're like the Scarlet Pimpernel of audio forums.

 

[morillon]

Well, that's disappointing.
You're like the Scarlet Pimpernel of audio forums.

I have already expressed myself a lot on the wiim forum (where you participate) ...
good evening

 

[Joffy1780]

I have already expressed myself a lot on the wiim forum (where you participate) ...
good evening

Express yourself here, please. As I said, share the knowledge.

 

[mlsstl]

Express yourself here, please. As I said, share the knowledge.

He could always copy and paste his explanations -- that'd save a lot of typing. Or post links which is also pretty easy.

 

[Joffy1780]

He could always copy and paste his explanations -- that'd save a lot of typing. Or post links which is also pretty easy.

I'm a member of the Wiim forums, and I could link to any of the posts he has made there explaining what the issues are.
The issue being there aren't any.

 

[morillon]

I'm a member of the Wiim forums, and I could link to any of the posts he has made there explaining what the issues are.
The issue being there aren't any.

Post in thread 'WiiM Ultra' https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wiim-ultra.50897/post-2048259

 

[Joffy1780]

Post in thread 'WiiM Ultra' https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wiim-ultra.50897/post-2048259

Thank you. Could you explain the main issues please, as I'm quite interested in buying one but your posts have put a lot of doubt in my mind?

 

[mlsstl]

Thank you. Could you explain the main issues please, as I'm quite interested in buying one but your posts have put a lot of doubt in my mind?

I've had an Ultra in my main system as streamer and preamp for three weeks now and really like it. It has replaced a Schiit Lyr 3 preamp with a multibit DAC card. Most of the fuss seems to lie with some of onlyoneme's measurements not being quite as good as WiiM's published specs.

Sure, great numbers are nice, but I'm very happy with the audible performance of the Ultra in my system. I've got a sound level meter and the background noise in my house when everything is quiet is roughly 30 dB and it doesn't take much to send that to 40+ dB. The loudest I generally listen is in the mid 80 dB range, maybe hitting 90 dB here and there on peaks. Look at the difference between those numbers. Arguing whether something has a SINAD of 110 dB instead of 116 is not something I worry about. Both are way beyond what I can detect when I'm listening to music. The Ultra sounds just as good as the equipment it replaced, it runs a lot cooler, and has a lot of features that make it easier to use -- like the voice remote for Amazon music that makes it much easier for my wife to use than the old setup.

 

[Emiyanez]

I've had an Ultra in my main system as streamer and preamp for three weeks now and really like it. It has replaced a Schiit Lyr 3 preamp with a multibit DAC card. Most of the fuss seems to lie with some of onlyoneme's measurements not being quite as good as WiiM's published specs.

Sure, great numbers are nice, but I'm very happy with the audible performance of the Ultra in my system. I've got a sound level meter and the background noise in my house when everything is quiet is roughly 30 dB and it doesn't take much to send that to 40+ dB. The loudest I generally listen is in the mid 80 dB range, maybe hitting 90 dB here and there on peaks. Look at the difference between those numbers. Arguing whether something has a SINAD of 110 dB instead of 116 is not something I worry about. Both are way beyond what I can detect when I'm listening to music. The Ultra sounds just as good as the equipment it replaced, it runs a lot cooler, and has a lot of features that make it easier to use -- like the voice remote for Amazon music that makes it much easier for my wife to use than the old setup.

I am also overall really happy with the Ultra but Onlyoneme detected some noise coming most likely from the internal PSU that make WiiM's published specs a bit off. Whether it's audible or not is a different discussion...

 

[Krusty09]

yes for yorkshire mouth-steve woodhouse ;-)
given what is observed by onlyoneme on the ultra...it's really a shame that other standard measurements, from other sources, are late...

When you say standard measurements are late what does that mean? Who is late in providing them?

Thanks

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I am also overall really happy with the Ultra but Onlyoneme detected some noise coming most likely from the internal PSU that make WiiM's published specs a bit off. Whether it's audible or not is a different discussion...

It is indeed. And obviously a far more important one.

Who’d be interested in ‘noise’ you can’t hear?

 

[Brian Hall]

It is indeed. And obviously a far more important one.

Who’d be interested in ‘noise’ you can’t hear?

Probably the same people who think having ultrasonics present are important since ultrasonics are just noise that can't be heard.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Probably the same people who think having ultrasonics present are important since ultrasonics are just noise that can't be heard.

You know, I don’t mind. It takes all sorts, and there’s nothing wrong per se with a quest for engineering excellence.

But you can’t criticise a product for noise at inaudible levels, unless you’re charging thousands for it.

 

[Laserjock]

No need to assume if you have a basic multimeter laying around somewhere.

Measuring output voltage is really straightforward.
View attachment 386447

Lol, it sounds great there. Was overdriving before so it’s good.
I’m tired of testing. Lol

 

[somebodyelse]

But you can’t criticise a product for noise at inaudible levels, unless you’re charging thousands for it.

You can if it doesn't meet the manufacturer's specs - that reflects poorly on the manufacturer. It could represent a faulty unit, significant sample to sample variation in performance, or 'just' a manufacturer making misleading claims. Or even a faulty measurement. I'm not saying any of these have happened here as I've not seen the measurements on the Wiim forum and I'm waiting for other measurements.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

You can if it doesn't meet the manufacturer's specs - that reflects poorly on the manufacturer. It could represent a faulty unit, significant sample to sample variation in performance, or 'just' a manufacturer making misleading claims. Or even a faulty measurement. I'm not saying any of these have happened here as I've not seen the measurements on the Wiim forum and I'm waiting for other measurements.

Yes, I’d agree with those caveats.

So far WiiM’s published specs have been broadly born out by Amir’s measurements. But of course there’s always a first time.

 

[mlsstl]

You can if it doesn't meet the manufacturer's specs - that reflects poorly on the manufacturer. It could represent a faulty unit, significant sample to sample variation in performance, or 'just' a manufacturer making misleading claims. Or even a faulty measurement. I'm not saying any of these have happened here as I've not seen the measurements on the Wiim forum and I'm waiting for other measurements.

There are a lot of "ifs" in your statement. And so far, onlyoneme's tests are the only outside measurements that have been done so far. It will be interesting to see what the results are when others -- like ASR -- get around to measuring the device. I will also note that it is not uncommon for many items to measure somewhat differently than the manufacturer's specs, especially when we are getting into the range that modern devices are capable of achieving. All it takes are slight differences -- maybe in the test equipment used, its setup, nearby other equipment, and bingo, numbers are slightly different.

Reminds me of the Ford vs Chevy debates some of my friends had in high school decades ago....

 

[somebodyelse]

There are a lot of "ifs" in your statement. And so far, onlyoneme's tests are the only outside measurements that have been done so far. It will be interesting to see what the results are when others -- like ASR -- get around to measuring the device. I will also note that it is not uncommon for many items to measure somewhat differently than the manufacturer's specs, especially when we are getting into the range that modern devices are capable of achieving. All it takes are slight differences -- maybe in the test equipment used, its setup, nearby other equipment, and bingo, numbers are slightly different.

Reminds me of the Ford vs Chevy debates some of my friends had in high school decades ago....

There are a lot of "ifs" in the first part as it's a response to @Yorkshire Mouth's generic statement about complaining about measurements. That's why I said "manufacturer" and "product" instead of Wiim and Ultra. I thought the last sentence would have removed any sense that I thought this applied to the Ultra, but apparently not. I hope the intent is clearer now.

 

[Narrator]

Schiit has announced a new preamp, the Saga 2, priced at $279. Would this be a good addition to use between the Wiim Ultra and a pair of Topping B200s, or should I rely on the Ultra's preamp mode?