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WiiM Ultra

Joffy1780 said:
Thank you. Could you explain the main issues please, as I'm quite interested in buying one but your posts have put a lot of doubt in my mind?
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I've had an Ultra in my main system as streamer and preamp for three weeks now and really like it. It has replaced a Schiit Lyr 3 preamp with a multibit DAC card. Most of the fuss seems to lie with some of onlyoneme's measurements not being quite as good as WiiM's published specs.

Sure, great numbers are nice, but I'm very happy with the audible performance of the Ultra in my system. I've got a sound level meter and the background noise in my house when everything is quiet is roughly 30 dB and it doesn't take much to send that to 40+ dB. The loudest I generally listen is in the mid 80 dB range, maybe hitting 90 dB here and there on peaks. Look at the difference between those numbers. Arguing whether something has a SINAD of 110 dB instead of 116 is not something I worry about. Both are way beyond what I can detect when I'm listening to music. The Ultra sounds just as good as the equipment it replaced, it runs a lot cooler, and has a lot of features that make it easier to use -- like the voice remote for Amazon music that makes it much easier for my wife to use than the old setup.
 
mlsstl said:
I've had an Ultra in my main system as streamer and preamp for three weeks now and really like it. It has replaced a Schiit Lyr 3 preamp with a multibit DAC card. Most of the fuss seems to lie with some of onlyoneme's measurements not being quite as good as WiiM's published specs.

Sure, great numbers are nice, but I'm very happy with the audible performance of the Ultra in my system. I've got a sound level meter and the background noise in my house when everything is quiet is roughly 30 dB and it doesn't take much to send that to 40+ dB. The loudest I generally listen is in the mid 80 dB range, maybe hitting 90 dB here and there on peaks. Look at the difference between those numbers. Arguing whether something has a SINAD of 110 dB instead of 116 is not something I worry about. Both are way beyond what I can detect when I'm listening to music. The Ultra sounds just as good as the equipment it replaced, it runs a lot cooler, and has a lot of features that make it easier to use -- like the voice remote for Amazon music that makes it much easier for my wife to use than the old setup.
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I am also overall really happy with the Ultra but Onlyoneme detected some noise coming most likely from the internal PSU that make WiiM's published specs a bit off. Whether it's audible or not is a different discussion...
 
morillon said:
yes for yorkshire mouth-steve woodhouse ;-)
given what is observed by onlyoneme on the ultra...it's really a shame that other standard measurements, from other sources, are late...
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When you say standard measurements are late what does that mean? Who is late in providing them?

Thanks
 
Emiyanez said:
I am also overall really happy with the Ultra but Onlyoneme detected some noise coming most likely from the internal PSU that make WiiM's published specs a bit off. Whether it's audible or not is a different discussion...
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It is indeed. And obviously a far more important one.

Who’d be interested in ‘noise’ you can’t hear?
 
Brian Hall said:
Probably the same people who think having ultrasonics present are important since ultrasonics are just noise that can't be heard.
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You know, I don’t mind. It takes all sorts, and there’s nothing wrong per se with a quest for engineering excellence.

But you can’t criticise a product for noise at inaudible levels, unless you’re charging thousands for it.
 
Yorkshire Mouth said:
But you can’t criticise a product for noise at inaudible levels, unless you’re charging thousands for it.
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You can if it doesn't meet the manufacturer's specs - that reflects poorly on the manufacturer. It could represent a faulty unit, significant sample to sample variation in performance, or 'just' a manufacturer making misleading claims. Or even a faulty measurement. I'm not saying any of these have happened here as I've not seen the measurements on the Wiim forum and I'm waiting for other measurements.
 
somebodyelse said:
You can if it doesn't meet the manufacturer's specs - that reflects poorly on the manufacturer. It could represent a faulty unit, significant sample to sample variation in performance, or 'just' a manufacturer making misleading claims. Or even a faulty measurement. I'm not saying any of these have happened here as I've not seen the measurements on the Wiim forum and I'm waiting for other measurements.
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Yes, I’d agree with those caveats.

So far WiiM’s published specs have been broadly born out by Amir’s measurements. But of course there’s always a first time.
 
somebodyelse said:
You can if it doesn't meet the manufacturer's specs - that reflects poorly on the manufacturer. It could represent a faulty unit, significant sample to sample variation in performance, or 'just' a manufacturer making misleading claims. Or even a faulty measurement. I'm not saying any of these have happened here as I've not seen the measurements on the Wiim forum and I'm waiting for other measurements.
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There are a lot of "ifs" in your statement. And so far, onlyoneme's tests are the only outside measurements that have been done so far. It will be interesting to see what the results are when others -- like ASR -- get around to measuring the device. I will also note that it is not uncommon for many items to measure somewhat differently than the manufacturer's specs, especially when we are getting into the range that modern devices are capable of achieving. All it takes are slight differences -- maybe in the test equipment used, its setup, nearby other equipment, and bingo, numbers are slightly different.

Reminds me of the Ford vs Chevy debates some of my friends had in high school decades ago.... ;)
 
mlsstl said:
There are a lot of "ifs" in your statement. And so far, onlyoneme's tests are the only outside measurements that have been done so far. It will be interesting to see what the results are when others -- like ASR -- get around to measuring the device. I will also note that it is not uncommon for many items to measure somewhat differently than the manufacturer's specs, especially when we are getting into the range that modern devices are capable of achieving. All it takes are slight differences -- maybe in the test equipment used, its setup, nearby other equipment, and bingo, numbers are slightly different.

Reminds me of the Ford vs Chevy debates some of my friends had in high school decades ago.... ;)
Click to expand...
There are a lot of "ifs" in the first part as it's a response to @Yorkshire Mouth's generic statement about complaining about measurements. That's why I said "manufacturer" and "product" instead of Wiim and Ultra. I thought the last sentence would have removed any sense that I thought this applied to the Ultra, but apparently not. I hope the intent is clearer now.
 
Schiit has announced a new preamp, the Saga 2, priced at $279. Would this be a good addition to use between the Wiim Ultra and a pair of Topping B200s, or should I rely on the Ultra's preamp mode?
 
Narrator said:
Schiit has announced a new preamp, the Saga 2, priced at $279. Would this be a good addition to use between the Wiim Ultra and a pair of Topping B200s, or should I rely on the Ultra's preamp mode?
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I think it is very likely you can rely on the preamp mode of the WiiM Ultra instead of adding the Saga 2 to the signal path.
 
Just a quick info:
yesterday my WiiM ultra arrived and I integrated it into my setup, replacing a SONOS port.
Due to WiiM ultra lacking Airplay I added a WiiM mini for this.

My setup now looks like this:

Streaming Device: WiiM ultra + WiiM mini for Airplay, The mini is connected using optical interface to the ultra and is using the USB port from the ultra for power supply.
Volume Control and connection to the speakers: RME ADI-2 DAC fs connected via optical interface with the WiiM ultra
Speakers: Neumann KH750 + 2xKH310 connected to the RME.

My music is on my Synology NAS (approx, 40k files) different quality, from low end MP3 up to hires and flac files.
Setup of the WiiM ultra was a piece of cake. All works fine and I am happy to have the SONOS stuff kicked out (not because of the hardware, but because of the curently bad software).

Ok, I am using the DAC of the RME instead of the one in the WiiM, but the RME specs are good enough for me ;) and the RME has a better adaptive loudness function IMHO. Last but not least, it has XLR output, so I do not need to convert RCA unsymmetrical to XLR symmetrical.

I planned to go for the Eversolo DMP A8, but currently I see no reason for that step. Price wise my setup is quite attractive I guess.
 
Narrator said:
Schiit has announced a new preamp, the Saga 2, priced at $279. Would this be a good addition to use between the Wiim Ultra and a pair of Topping B200s, or should I rely on the Ultra's preamp mode?
Click to expand...

The advantage to the Saga 2 would be if you had more analog inputs you needed to be able to select between. The Ultra has one analog input. The Saga 2 has four analog inputs. If you don't need the extra inputs, you can just use the Ultra.
 
sealpin said:
Just a quick info:
yesterday my WiiM ultra arrived and I integrated it into my setup, replacing a SONOS port.
Due to WiiM ultra lacking Airplay I added a WiiM mini for this.

My setup now looks like this:

Streaming Device: WiiM ultra + WiiM mini for Airplay, The mini is connected using optical interface to the ultra and is using the USB port from the ultra for power supply.
Volume Control and connection to the speakers: RME ADI-2 DAC fs connected via optical interface with the WiiM ultra
Speakers: Neumann KH750 + 2xKH310 connected to the RME.

My music is on my Synology NAS (approx, 40k files) different quality, from low end MP3 up to hires and flac files.
Setup of the WiiM ultra was a piece of cake. All works fine and I am happy to have the SONOS stuff kicked out (not because of the hardware, but because of the curently bad software).

Ok, I am using the DAC of the RME instead of the one in the WiiM, but the RME specs are good enough for me ;) and the RME has a better adaptive loudness function IMHO. Last but not least, it has XLR output, so I do not need to convert RCA unsymmetrical to XLR symmetrical.

I planned to go for the Eversolo DMP A8, but currently I see no reason for that step. Price wise my setup is quite attractive I guess.
Click to expand...
Happy to give the Port a home.
 
sealpin said:
Just a quick info:
yesterday my WiiM ultra arrived and I integrated it into my setup, replacing a SONOS port.
Due to WiiM ultra lacking Airplay I added a WiiM mini for this.

My setup now looks like this:

Streaming Device: WiiM ultra + WiiM mini for Airplay, The mini is connected using optical interface to the ultra and is using the USB port from the ultra for power supply.
Volume Control and connection to the speakers: RME ADI-2 DAC fs connected via optical interface with the WiiM ultra
Speakers: Neumann KH750 + 2xKH310 connected to the RME.

My music is on my Synology NAS (approx, 40k files) different quality, from low end MP3 up to hires and flac files.
Setup of the WiiM ultra was a piece of cake. All works fine and I am happy to have the SONOS stuff kicked out (not because of the hardware, but because of the curently bad software).

Ok, I am using the DAC of the RME instead of the one in the WiiM, but the RME specs are good enough for me ;) and the RME has a better adaptive loudness function IMHO. Last but not least, it has XLR output, so I do not need to convert RCA unsymmetrical to XLR symmetrical.

I planned to go for the Eversolo DMP A8, but currently I see no reason for that step. Price wise my setup is quite attractive I guess.
Click to expand...
Been looking at the new denefrips 12th-1, it's just within reach.
 
Brian Hall said:
The advantage to the Saga 2 would be if you had more analog inputs you needed to be able to select between. The Ultra has one analog input. The Saga 2 has four analog inputs. If you don't need the extra inputs, you can just use the Ultra.
Click to expand...
Technically speaking the Ultra has two analog inputs. ;) But one is reserved for a special kind of analog sources. :D

The Saga would add more line level inputs, indeed, but none of them could take advantage of PEQ/RC/sub management, if desired.
 
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