WiiM Mini Streamer

[Owis]

Now we are getting somewhere. Ralph can you post an Amazon XML for comparison ?

Interesting that the ‘protocoLInfo’ for Qobuz = MP3

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Now we are getting somewhere. Ralph can you post an Amazon XML for comparison ?

Interesting that the ‘protocoLInfo’ for Qobuz = MP3

I don't have an Amazon subscription, just the freebie that comes with Prime. Note that the <song:quality> tag is missing here. Someone with an Amazon sub should test this with the UPnP Tool.

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<DIDL-Lite xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:upnp="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/upnp/" xmlns:song="www.wiimu.com/song/" xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/DIDL-Lite/">
    <upnp:class>object.item.audioItem.musicTrack</upnp:class>
    <item id="0">
        <song:subid>0</song:subid>
        <song:description></song:description>
        <song:skiplimit>0</song:skiplimit>
        <song:id>B075VG21B4</song:id>
        <song:like>0</song:like>
        <song:singerid>0</song:singerid>
        <song:albumid>2</song:albumid>
        <res protocolInfo="http-get:*:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3;DLNA.ORG_OP=01;" duration="83:36:40.000">wiimu_search://../../tracks/B075VG21B4/</res>
        <dc:title>Sweet and Slow</dc:title>
        <dc:creator>Hilary Gardner &amp; Ehud Asherie</dc:creator>
        <upnp:artist>Hilary Gardner &amp; Ehud Asherie</upnp:artist>
        <upnp:album>The Late Set</upnp:album>
        <upnp:thumbRating>unknown</upnp:thumbRating>
        <upnp:ratingURI>unknown</upnp:ratingURI>
        <upnp:albumArtURI>https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51TLACosv5L.jpg</upnp:albumArtURI>
        <song:rate_hz>44100</song:rate_hz>
        <song:format_s>16</song:format_s>
    </item>
</DIDL-Lite>

 

[Brantome]

I don't have an Amazon subscription, just the freebie that comes with Prime. Note that the <song:quality> tag is missing here. Someone with an Amazon sub should test this with the UPnP Tool.

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<DIDL-Lite xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:upnp="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/upnp/" xmlns:song="www.wiimu.com/song/" xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/DIDL-Lite/">
    <upnp:class>object.item.audioItem.musicTrack</upnp:class>
    <item id="0">
        <song:subid>0</song:subid>
        <song:description></song:description>
        <song:skiplimit>0</song:skiplimit>
        <song:id>B075VG21B4</song:id>
        <song:like>0</song:like>
        <song:singerid>0</song:singerid>
        <song:albumid>2</song:albumid>
        <res protocolInfo="http-get:*:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3;DLNA.ORG_OP=01;" duration="83:36:40.000">wiimu_search://../../tracks/B075VG21B4/</res>
        <dc:title>Sweet and Slow</dc:title>
        <dc:creator>Hilary Gardner &amp; Ehud Asherie</dc:creator>
        <upnp:artist>Hilary Gardner &amp; Ehud Asherie</upnp:artist>
        <upnp:album>The Late Set</upnp:album>
        <upnp:thumbRating>unknown</upnp:thumbRating>
        <upnp:ratingURI>unknown</upnp:ratingURI>
        <upnp:albumArtURI>https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51TLACosv5L.jpg</upnp:albumArtURI>
        <song:rate_hz>44100</song:rate_hz>
        <song:format_s>16</song:format_s>
    </item>
</DIDL-Lite>

How do you use the tool?

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

How do you use the tool?

Just start it up on the same network as your WiiM. It will search for any and all UPnP/DLNA devices on your network. Then just click to drill down...

 

[Brantome]

I don't have an Amazon subscription, just the freebie that comes with Prime. Note that the <song:quality> tag is missing here. Someone with an Amazon sub should test this with the UPnP Tool.

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<DIDL-Lite xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:upnp="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/upnp/" xmlns:song="www.wiimu.com/song/" xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/DIDL-Lite/">
    <upnp:class>object.item.audioItem.musicTrack</upnp:class>
    <item id="0">
        <song:subid>0</song:subid>
        <song:description></song:description>
        <song:skiplimit>0</song:skiplimit>
        <song:id>B075VG21B4</song:id>
        <song:like>0</song:like>
        <song:singerid>0</song:singerid>
        <song:albumid>2</song:albumid>
        <res protocolInfo="http-get:*:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3;DLNA.ORG_OP=01;" duration="83:36:40.000">wiimu_search://../../tracks/B075VG21B4/</res>
        <dc:title>Sweet and Slow</dc:title>
        <dc:creator>Hilary Gardner &amp; Ehud Asherie</dc:creator>
        <upnp:artist>Hilary Gardner &amp; Ehud Asherie</upnp:artist>
        <upnp:album>The Late Set</upnp:album>
        <upnp:thumbRating>unknown</upnp:thumbRating>
        <upnp:ratingURI>unknown</upnp:ratingURI>
        <upnp:albumArtURI>https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51TLACosv5L.jpg</upnp:albumArtURI>
        <song:rate_hz>44100</song:rate_hz>
        <song:format_s>16</song:format_s>
    </item>
</DIDL-Lite>

Prime Music (or Amazon Music Prime as they now seem to be calling it) only supports lossy SD tracks, it’s just a smaller 2m track catalog that comes free with being a Prime customer, rather than the 70-90m HD and UHD tracks that an Amazon Music Unlimited subscription has. The fact that it shows 16/44.1 from a lossy source suggests we need info on the bitrate, not just the bit depth and sample rate.

What Are the Differences Between the Amazon Music Subscriptions? - Amazon Customer Service

Listen to your favorite songs online and choose the subscription that best suits your needs.

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Would be interesting to see whether the <song:quality> tag shows up with an Amazon sub.

 

[Brantome]

Would be interesting to see whether the <song:quality> tag shows up with an Amazon sub.

<?xml version="1.0"?> <DIDL-Lite xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:upnp="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/upnp/" xmlns:song="www.wiimu.com/song/" xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/DIDL-Lite/"> <upnp:class>object.item.audioItem.musicTrack</upnp:class> <item id="0"> <song:subid>11</song:subid> <song:description></song:description> <song:skiplimit>0</song:skiplimit> <song:id>B07HSL8LG4</song:id> <song:like>0</song:like> <song:singerid>0</song:singerid> <song:albumid>3</song:albumid> <res protocolInfo="http-get:*:audio/mpegLNA.ORG_PN=MP3;DLNA.ORG_OP=01;" duration="51:23:20.000">wiimu_search://f719b69b-c691-4cb7-b545-55b7d463298d/</res> <dc:title>I Feel Like I&apos;m Drowning</dc:title> <dc:creator>Two Feet</dc:creator> <upnp:artist>Two Feet</upnp:artist> <upnp:album>A 20 Something Fuck [Explicit]</upnp:album> <upnp:thumbRating>unknown</upnp:thumbRating> <upnp:ratingURI>unknown</upnp:ratingURI> <upnp:albumArtURI>https://album-art-storage-eu.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/d8f34c003b58120d4bd684e6385dabbacd9afaa07ee73df55ae6962b72b92ff0_500x500.jpg?response-content-type=image%2Fjpeg&amp;X-Amz-Security-Token=FwoGZXIvYXdzEIn%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaDBYs0CxjUXI466HKxiKCAXfiudrV8IFRYILVgWVrtTaNBLdN08ivuwefgmPNqTcrTZWYJcHj9dxH3N5U1Avs%2FJwzOq2oej3bzCWXVBOKyWP0VtB2pqOlqYe5bUR4tOwrqhFyBXaZYdG9X%2FIVj4NYKVPXnuaMPKbSC18Lk7WXbeXR%2BYM5PfuhxlrejBdGSRhqQ%2F8og52%2BkwYyKPT9jgB4%2BwAb7JM1ehBhQYzqLWn1krGD8rtnJBq34jGknmAUkgVYCss%3D&amp;X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&amp;X-Amz-Date=20220502T135432Z&amp;X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&amp;X-Amz-Expires=86399&amp;X-Amz-Credential=ASIAZZLLX6KMT3OD3M5R%2F20220502%2Feu-west-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&amp;X-Amz-Signature=08314c569518a525d55d6132c2cf4dec1546569d970d5f762c39096247eb6e5e</upnp:albumArtURI> <song:rate_hz>44100</song:rate_hz> <song:format_s>16</song:format_s> </item> </DIDL-Lite>

Sorry for the lack of formatting - this a 24/192 UHD track from Amazon Music playing from the WiiM app - however, as WiiM doesn’t support that, Amazon Music delivers the SD version,

 

[Jpdelaney.tml]

Prime Music (or Amazon Music Prime as they now seem to be calling it) only supports lossy SD tracks, it’s just a smaller 2m track catalog that comes free with being a Prime customer, rather than the 70-90m HD and UHD tracks that an Amazon Music Unlimited subscription has. The fact that it shows 16/44.1 from a lossy source suggests we need info on the bitrate, not just the bit depth and sample rate.

What Are the Differences Between the Amazon Music Subscriptions? - Amazon Customer Service

Listen to your favorite songs online and choose the subscription that best suits your needs.

www.amazon.co.uk

I agree, bitrate display will prove what format may be playing. Another feature they should be displayed to justify their product's performance! I have no streaming HD/UHD in Canada without Amazon Unlimited working properly (FLAC, and get above 16/44.1 mp3) ouch! Buffalo NAS works as advertised, bit-perfect.

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Tidal investigation. I have the Tidal HiFi sub, because it's CD quality for $5.99/mo. with the Veterans' discount. Plus they supposedly pay the artists more...

So, I've noticed that when streaming Tidal via the WiiM app, I get <song:quality> of 1, which displays HIGH in the app. Via Tidal Connect, it's usually a 2, and shows HiFi in the Tidal app. Now my ears can't hear a difference (not that I've tried really hard), but I'm pretty sure WiiM is streaming Tidal lossy; can only get lossless via Tidal Connect. Perhaps @WiiM Support will comment...

 

[TomInDenver]

I think Wiim has been supporting CD 16/44.1 quality lossless FLAC for a while. Amazon Music calls this "HD". Higher resolution in Amazon Music is "UltraHD". You need an Amazon Music Unlimited subscription to get HD/UltraHD or else you just get "SD" which is lossy mp3.

The Wiim Streamer page on amazon.com says:
Not all integrated music services support 24-bit/192 kHz output. Currently, Amazon Music Ultra HD and TIDAL Master (MQA) are not supported. Amazon Music HD and TIDAL HiFi are supported instead.

https://www.amazon.com/WiiM-Mini-Multiroom-Preamplifier-Assistants/dp/B09HC5GRKY

I am going to say they don't want legal troubles for saying they support something when they don't so this statement on the Amazon page should be accurate.

So if you have an Amazon Music Unlimited subscription or a Tidal HiFi subscription you are getting full 16/44.1 CD quality lossless from your Wiim.

I have an Amazon Music Unlimited subscription for HD/UltraHD, and as I said in previous post, starting song from Wiim App has the same network traffic as starting song from Amazon Music App with Alexacast to Wiim, so CD lossless quality from either app.

And TIDAL HiFi that Wiim supports is also defined as CD quality lossless by TIDAL as well.

 

[Owis]

So if you have a paid Amazon Music account or paid Tidal account you are getting full 16/44.1 CD quality lossless from your Wiim.

You're mistaken. Someone above did a traffic monitor test and was receiving 300kbps. Your tests are the same because they're both lossy. You need to do another one without the wiim in the chain and compare

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

And TIDAL HiFi that Wiim supports is also defined as CD quality lossless by TIDAL as well.

But currently only getting lossless CD quality via Tidal Connect, not via the WiiM app, IME.

 

[TomInDenver]

You're mistaken. Someone above did a traffic monitor test and was receiving 300kbps. Your tests are the same because they're both lossy. You need to do another one without the wiim in the chain and compare

Or someone above might not have tested properly. Just saying.

 

[TomInDenver]

But currently only getting lossless CD quality via Tidal Connect, not via the WiiM app, IME.

My test was for Amazon Music App with Alexacast to Wiim. I did not test Tidal in Wiim App nor TIDAL Connect.

 

[imral3]

My test was for Amazon Music App with Alexacast to Wiim. I did not test TIDAL Connect.

What was your bitrate for both these tests? I am an AMHD user and need the deets!

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

The Tidal settings inside the WiiM app offer only Normal or High for stream quality, no HiFi, unlike the Tidal app. I’ve opened a ticket with WiiM…

 

[Owis]

The Tidal settings inside the WiiM app offer only Normal or High for stream quality, no HiFi, unlike the Tidal app. I’ve opened a ticket with WiiM…

Normal is lossy, High should be CD lossless 44.1 & assuming Hifi is MQA which the wiim doesn't support yet...?

 

[Spenner]

The Tidal settings inside the WiiM app offer only Normal or High for stream quality, no HiFi, unlike the Tidal app. I’ve opened a ticket with WiiM…

Hmm... something is definitely not right. If you have a Hifi subscription you should be getting the option in the WiiM app. I have the Hifi plus subscription and in the Tidal app I can choose between Normal, High, Hifi and Master. With Tidal in the WiiM app I can only choose Normal, High or HifI. No Master option which makes sense because it isn’t supported yet.

 

[Brantome]

I think Wiim has been supporting CD 16/44.1 quality lossless FLAC for a while. Amazon Music calls this "HD". Higher resolution in Amazon Music is "UltraHD". You need an Amazon Music Unlimited subscription to get HD/UltraHD or else you just get "SD" which is lossy mp3.

The Wiim Streamer page on amazon.com says:
Not all integrated music services support 24-bit/192 kHz output. Currently, Amazon Music Ultra HD and TIDAL Master (MQA) are not supported. Amazon Music HD and TIDAL HiFi are supported instead.

https://www.amazon.com/WiiM-Mini-Multiroom-Preamplifier-Assistants/dp/B09HC5GRKY

I am going to say they don't want legal troubles for saying they support something when they don't so this statement on the Amazon page should be accurate.

So if you have an Amazon Music Unlimited subscription or a Tidal HiFi subscription you are getting full 16/44.1 CD quality lossless from your Wiim.

I have an Amazon Music Unlimited subscription for HD/UltraHD, and as I said in previous post, starting song from Wiim App has the same network traffic as starting song from Amazon Music App with Alexacast to Wiim, so CD lossless quality from either app.

And TIDAL HiFi that Wiim supports is also defined as CD quality lossless by TIDAL as well.

I don’t believe that it supports lossless Amazon Music HD at all, despite what that page or indeed some of the FAQ on their own website say - I think some of their responses incorrectly refer to lossy “bit perfect” 16/44.1 as HD which, in Amazon terms, it isn’t . I’ve already said in several comments that what they currently support is the lossy Amazon Music Unlimited service which appears fairly straightforward to implement. The lossless Amazon Music HD service which contains 16bit HD and 24bit UHD, as far as I know, employs a different set of APIs and algorithms and that’s what they’re working on. It doesn’t make any sense to me that they have implemented the first service and half of the second service.

When I asked them directly, I got this response:
1. We will support both lossless HD and Ultra HD service in April.
2. You are right, now we only support standard quality (up to 320kbps).

While I doubt some of their website info, my background and experience leads me to put more faith in those two answers.

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Hmm... something is definitely not right. If you have a Hifi subscription you should be getting the option in the WiiM app. I have the Hifi plus subscription and in the Tidal app I can choose between Normal, High, Hifi and Master. With Tidal in the WiiM app I can only choose Normal, High or HifI. No Master option which makes sense because it isn’t supported yet.

Yes. Inside the WiiM app, my account says Premium, not HiFi. In the Tidal app, it says HiFi. So, they have it screwed up.