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bigfanres

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For clarity I was comparing: WiiM>toslink>R26. vs. JPLAY >lan>R26. So WiiM dac element not being compared here, only using wiim As streamer vs JPLAY via LAN.

the wiim is a wiim mini so is connected to the network via WiFi. Toslink is guaranteed to 96khz, but I have no trouble whatsoever with 192khz hires files from Qobuz via the WiiM and toslink to the R26.
Not talking about the DAC, ie analog outs of Wiim, just the digital side. What I’ve found (today) is that in either Wiim will send 24/192 to R26 in either Toslink or Coax via LAN connection to Wiim. And for my ears, the Optical actually sounded more coherent, a tad brighter and clearer, and 1-2db louder on my meter at 12’; call it a 5-10% betterment than Coax. Coax is a WireWorld silver IC and Toslink is a run of the mill 3’ cable.
 

antcollinet

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Not talking about the DAC, ie analog outs of Wiim, just the digital side. What I’ve found (today) is that in either Wiim will send 24/192 to R26 in either Toslink or Coax via LAN connection to Wiim. And for my ears, the Optical actually sounded more coherent, a tad brighter and clearer, and 1-2db louder on my meter at 12’; call it a 5-10% betterment than Coax. Coax is a WireWorld silver IC and Toslink is a run of the mill 3’ cable.
Toslink and Coax send exactly the same data - so sound exactly the same if working correctly.

If not working correctly it will fail in the form of clearly audible pops, clicks and dropouts.

What you were hearing as a difference must therefore come from the effects of cognitive bias based on sighted listening. Any difference measured on your meter will be due to the inaccuracies of the meter, and/or placement of the meter, and/or difference in the actual sound file at the time of the measurement. Even just your position in the room can change the sound field to induce a few dB of difference.
 
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Greenman

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Toslink and Coax send exactly the same data - so sound exactly the same if working correctly.
Should do, in theory. But interfaces are implemented differently and coax provides a ground and electrical connection between the devices that isn’t there with optical, so you can’t discount possibility of noise being introduced via coax, or increased jitter (say) via toslink. Look at any of Amirs measurements - the coax and toslink measurements are rarely identical (all be it usually at inaudible levels).

Any difference measured on your meter will be due to the inaccuracies of the meter, and/or placement of the meter, and/or difference in the actual sound file at the time of the measurement. Even just your position in the room can change the sound field to induce a few dB of difference.
This. I’m not sure what meter you are using, you will have potentially better results by measuring the actual voltage at the speaker rather than db levels of which positioning, ambient noise and a host of other factors become significant.
 

antcollinet

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so you can’t discount possibility of noise being introduced via coax, or increased jitter (say) via toslink. Look at any of Amirs measurements - the coax and toslink measurements are rarely identical (all be it usually at inaudible levels).
So:

Noise - if present - will appear as noise: hiss or hum. Not as described above.

Correct jitter, can be different between the two interfaces - but that is on the input to the DAC - that will be rejected by the DAC clock recovery circuits, and - as you suggest - will be way way below audible levels. See the L7 audio lab measurements of the R26. Even the jitter test only produced artefacts below -135 dbFS. As we keep having to state at ASR - jitter is a solved problem, and has been for decades. Not even worth mentioning anymore - which is why I didn't.

So - I'll restate (with the qualification that noise CAN impact a Coax connection - but then - if audible - is audible as noise, nothing else) the two interfaces will be audibly identical. They certainly won't have different levels.
 

MaxwellsEq

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What I’ve found (today) is that in either Wiim will send 24/192 to R26 in either Toslink or Coax via LAN connection to Wiim
I'm pleased you tried it and it worked
 
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bigfanres

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Your mileage will very….https://www.cnet.com/tech/home-entertainment/the-audiophiliac-asks-the-experts-do-digital-audio-connections-sound-different/
 

antcollinet

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Your mileage will very….https://www.cnet.com/tech/home-entertainment/the-audiophiliac-asks-the-experts-do-digital-audio-connections-sound-different/
All the usual sighted listening, handy wavey claptrap. "Everything matters"

Except it doesn't. Our hearing has neither unlimited bandwidth, nor unlimited resolution/dynamic range.
 
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bigfanres

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All the usual sighted listening, handy wavey claptrap. "Everything matters"

Except it doesn't. Our hearing has neither unlimited bandwidth, nor unlimited resolution/dynamic range.
If one cannot audibly discern 192 vs 96 (or 48…), what are we doing here?
 
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bigfanres

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We are here -- on ASR -- because even 16/44 deserves accurate reproduction. If a DAC can't even manage to pass 16 bits cleanly, it is to be avoided.
98% of content here on ASR isn’t 16/44 science. LBH, most on ASR are looking for the rationale, scientific backing such that is will measurably, AND audibly, improve the sound quality listening experience. Otherwise, we are fledgling scientists, and perhaps not audiophiles. I’d reason, A-S-R, by definition is intended to meld both. If I wanted the best 16/44 reproduction, I’d likely be over and done with it a decade ago.
 

antcollinet

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If one cannot audibly discern 192 vs 96 (or 48…), what are we doing here?
Paying for stuff that has no benefit.

Seriously - the only thing that the higher frequencies than 44.1KHz give you is audio bandwidth above 22KHz. Some 8 year olds MIGHT be able to hear 22KHz - but are probably not interested in it.

If you are not a dog or a bat it is pointless.


EDIT - I will typically output at 24/48 or even 24/96 - but only because I know it is so far above what I can hear that I don't have to worry about it. I don't fool myself by thinking it sounds better than redbook.

what are we doing here?
One of the things we are doing here, is learning the limits of our auditory system.
 
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BrokenOath

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I’m a newbie, to digital, I admit it.

I’m confused on digital to digital output and if DA conversion occurs once, twice.

I’d like to stream (have a Pro + w the DAC), to my R26 R2R (which I feed to a Levinson preamp via XLR).

If I’m running Wiim via say Optical (24/192 vis WiFi), into Gustard, am I getting the R26 “final” conversion or is the signal. Ever converted? Related, am I introducing noise with the Wiim and I’m better off adding a LAN wifi adapter to tnt R26 and attempt to stream via iOS/Mac (or over DLNA). Or should I just have gotten the Wiim mini to act as a “better” streamer / UI then the R26?

TIA, and apologies if topic addressed previously as I saw similar but it was Closed recently.
To my ears, the LAN input of the Gustard R26 provides the best sonic performance for me so far. My dedicated main audio room doesn't have a wired Ethernet jack, I used a WIFI to wired Ethernet adapter, and I am sending my audio files to the R26 using Jriver DLNA.
 
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