WiiM Amp Streaming Amplifier Review

[Mnyb]

Hi Team,

First and foremost, I want to express my sincere gratitude for all the insightful feedback you've shared. It's been incredibly valuable to us. I'd like to take a moment to share some insights into our journey with the Post-Filter Feedback (PFFB) implementation.

We've seen remarkable enhancements in SNR (Signal-to-Noise Ratio) and THD+N (Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise) performance after integrating PFFB. However, we encountered a challenge: resetting the Amp chip results in an audible pop noise. Despite our collaborative efforts with TI, we've found that this issue cannot be fully resolved at this time.

Given this, we've made the difficult decision not to include PFFB in the current WiiM Amp model to ensure the best user experience. Nevertheless, we're actively exploring solutions and are committed to potentially integrating PFFB into future products.

Thank you for your continued support and understanding. Stay tuned for more updates!

Thankyou for explaining your decisions.
User experience maters a lot for you , I understand .

Better luck implementing PFFB next version/product . Others have done it allegedly, so it should be possible....

(made an edit due to terrible language skills )

 

[DanTheMan]

I am reading that graph as having les than 1dB SPL deviations, am I wrong? If not, I’d consider that an effect not worth worrying about.

It’s a $300 piece of kit and does everything I need it to do. Worrying about 1dB variation when it’s going in a room having 10-30db peaks and nulls is not for me. I could tilt or turn my head a couple of degrees and induce as much or more variation than that! But that is me.

I’m curious if any golden ear’d critical listeners have found the FR to be objectionable or even noticeable as a result of this load sensitivity issue.

The true beauty of it is the parametric EQ. Anyone with a cellphone should be able to EQ their room issues at the listening position with a significant degree of accuracy.

 

[375HP2482]

Not at all loads,it's random and that's the weakness:

View attachment 352235

(been posted in previous pages)

These issues are so minor Erin had to resort to a graphical magnifying glass to make a point. Which might be relevant some day when we see loudspeaker measurements also utilizing 0.1 dB grids.

 

[Inertiaman]

Well I have the feeling that your R&D is not so good) Whether it is 3E Audio, Sylph Audio, Aiyima, Fosi, XRK.... no one has encountered this problem relating to pop noise when enabling PFFB.... Wiim should therefore worry or rethink their module from the beginning
You can use reverse engineering to find the solution unless you claim that you cannot implement the PFFB on your current modules because this would have a considerable impact on the cost.....

A few things worth noting about your comparisons:
- neither the Fosi or the Aiyima amplifier products are even available (yet)
- the 3E Audio and CRK and Sylph Audio products are all amp modules, not standalone amplifiers. And virtually all of them are currently unavailable and/or intermittently available
- many/all of the above use separate, discrete power supplies (unlike the Wiim Amp)
- none of the products you mention are integrated with an always-on (albeit in standby) streaming subsystem in the same chassis

So while I don't necessarily accept Wiim's explanation at face value (especially their implied "TI couldn't solve it either" comment), I think its reasonable to expect that the design constraints that they face in their product may create challenges that are not present in the designs you mention.

This doesn't mean Wiim shouldn't be expected to solve this. Rather, that your trivialization of the issue and apples/oranges comparisons aren't particularly fair/accurate.

 

[Descartes]

Hi Team,

First and foremost, I want to express my sincere gratitude for all the insightful feedback you've shared. It's been incredibly valuable to us. I'd like to take a moment to share some insights into our journey with the Post-Filter Feedback (PFFB) implementation.

We've seen remarkable enhancements in SNR (Signal-to-Noise Ratio) and THD+N (Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise) performance after integrating PFFB. However, we encountered a challenge: resetting the Amp chip results in an audible pop noise. Despite our collaborative efforts with TI, we've found that this issue cannot be fully resolved at this time.

Given this, we've made the difficult decision not to include PFFB in the current WiiM Amp model to ensure the best user experience. Nevertheless, we're actively exploring solutions and are committed to potentially integrating PFFB into future products.

Thank you for your continued support and understanding. Stay tuned for more updates!

Will the WiiM Ultra be an amp as well or just a streamer?

 

[Brantome]

Will the WiiM Ultra be an amp as well or just a streamer?

Streamer as far as I understand

 

[Sokel]

I am reading that graph as having les than 1dB SPL deviations, am I wrong? If not, I’d consider that an effect not worth worrying about.

It’s a $300 piece of kit and does everything I need it to do. Worrying about 1dB variation when it’s going in a room having 10-30db peaks and nulls is not for me. I could tilt or turn my head a couple of degrees and induce as much or more variation than that! But that is me.

I’m curious if any golden ear’d critical listeners have found the FR to be objectionable or even noticeable as a result of this load sensitivity issue.

You should read that graph as been variable and that's the whole matter.
I don't have a dog in that race,so I'll stop.
I just gonna quote what our host said about the matter as a general guide:

Cheap class D amps. Andrew Robinsons take.

I watched the video. If he had just read one of my reviews he would know that these have load dependency so their frequency response does depend on the load. Alas, he picked a Klipsch speaker that has exaggerated highs and very high sensitivity in that region to boot. So no wonder he hears a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

and I'll add that is better to be aware of the issue if one detects problems up there.

I'm done with it.

 

[Descartes]

Streamer as far as I understand

That’s too bad, I received a W!!M today but it looks like it’s been open! Looks like they are sending used units!
Anyone else had this problem?

 

[daniboun]

A few things worth noting about your comparisons:
- neither the Fosi or the Aiyima amplifier products are even available (yet)
- the 3E Audio and CRK and Sylph Audio products are all amp modules, not standalone amplifiers. And virtually all of them are currently unavailable and/or intermittently available
- many/all of the above use separate, discrete power supplies (unlike the Wiim Amp)
- none of the products you mention are integrated with an always-on (albeit in standby) streaming subsystem in the same chassis

So while I don't necessarily accept Wiim's explanation at face value (especially their implied "TI couldn't solve it either" comment), I think its reasonable to expect that the design constraints that they face in their product may create challenges that are not present in the designs you mention.

This doesn't mean Wiim shouldn't be expected to solve this. Rather, that your trivialization of the issue and apples/oranges comparisons aren't particularly fair/accurate.

Makes sense too
Pretty fair explanation )

 

[375HP2482]

Hi Team,

First and foremost, I want to express my sincere gratitude for all the insightful feedback you've shared. It's been incredibly valuable to us. I'd like to take a moment to share some insights into our journey with the Post-Filter Feedback (PFFB) implementation.

Those curious about Texas Instruments' earlier work with PFFB might check out this Application Note:

https://www.ti.com/lit/an/slaa788a/slaa788a.pdf

 

[Brantome]

That’s too bad, I received a W!!M today but it looks like it’s been open! Looks like they are sending used units!
Anyone else had this problem?

Not heard that. Who’s the seller?

 

[harkpabst]

I have read all the reviews relating to the TPA325X. I am at the origin of a plethora of projects based on these chips... No less than twenty to my credit.

I'm not questioning your technical expertise regarding projects with these chip amps.

My point is that WiiM certainly did not start out with the objective to create the technically best TPA3255 implementation so far. The functional specification for their commercial product was an all-in-one box that happened to use the TPA3255 (on a tight budget). In that very context (very well described by @Inertiaman) I can believe in WiiM's statement that pops and clicks could not be sorted, so finally were the reason for dropping PFFB at that point.

The bit that even TI couldn't solve it (in their application scenario) is a bit over the top, yes.

What is the problem with reactive loads ?

"Amplifier Reactive Load Test :
This is one robust amplifier, essentially not caring about the load down to impressive 2 ohms!"

Thread '3e Audio TPA3255 Amplifier Kit 480-1-29A Review' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...tpa3255-amplifier-kit-480-1-29a-review.50283/

We're mainly talking about load dependency regarding frequency response here, when it comes to real world reactive loads. It has been questioned if PFFB really is as effective in this case as it is regarding purely resistive loads. A different implementation of PFFB has been suggested to overcome this.

Unfortunately I didn't save a bookmark to this discussion (in another forum) but might find it again if I search for it.

 

[harkpabst]

That’s too bad, I received a W!!M today but it looks like it’s been open! Looks like they are sending used units!
Anyone else had this problem?

Just because the adhesive "seals" seem to have been opened doesn't necessarily mean you received a used unit.

It rather looks like this packaging isn't working that well in practice. The box is just too heavy and/or the adhesive not strong enough. There are complains about it all over the place, just take a look at Amazon buyer comments. My original Wiim Amp and the replacement unit both had the seals detached (and the inner cardboard crushed to some degree), but they were clearly fresh from the factory.

This is another aspect of the product where WiiM should be seeking improvement.

 

[Inertiaman]

Those curious about Texas Instruments' earlier work with PFFB might check out this Application Note:

https://www.ti.com/lit/an/slaa788a/slaa788a.pdf

Some humorous irony that one of the authors of the app note (Matthew Beardsworth) runs a small company producing high-end $6000 tube amplifiers (Bandwidth Audio) while simultaneously developing optimizations for $100 class D amp designs.

 

[morillon]

Some humorous irony that one of the authors of the app note (Matthew Beardsworth) runs a small company producing high-end tube amplifiers (Bandwidth Audio) while simultaneously developing optimizations for class D amp designs.

as a very good expert on this subject, it would be nice if this gentleman would come, on occasion, to enlighten us on it....
see the "class d" of the future in development etc.
;-)

 

[375HP2482]

Some humorous irony that one of the authors of the app note (Matthew Beardsworth) runs a small company producing high-end tube amplifiers (Bandwidth Audio) while simultaneously developing optimizations for class D amp designs.

Also note that, in this modest example of PFFB, there is negligible reduction in load-dependent VHF response.

 

[RoA]

I'd like to see what Wiim could do with a less constrained budget!

A product with a $7 or 800 end user price.

Include a superb headphone amplifier and upgraded amplification.

 

[daniboun]

Also note that, in this modest example of PFFB, there is negligible reduction in load-dependent VHF response.

What we should all consider about the PFFB and the numerous reviews of TPA325X based amps carried out by Amir have amply demonstrated this:

It offers many benefits including lower output noise, improved THD+N performance, improved IMD performance, lower output impedance, frequency response less affected by load impedance, and suppression of nonlinearities of the LC filter.

Therefore I think there is more reason to implement it than not to... )

 

[Einsneins]

I'm getting into Hifi and was looking for an amp and dac to power the Revel M105 DIY Copy speakers that I built, ideally as cheap as possible. It seems like the Wiim amp is a good option but I was also considering:
- Fosi V3
- SMSL Su-1

Since a streamer would be nice but not really necessary for me, the standalones would be a lot cheaper and, (from what I've researched) offer similar / better performance. Would you guys agree?

 

[bcfc]

Я увлекаюсь Hi-Fi и искал усилитель и ЦАП для питания созданных мной динамиков Revel M105 DIY Copy, в идеале как можно более дешевых. Кажется, усилитель Wiim — хороший вариант, но я также рассматривал:
- Фоси V3
- СМСЛ Су-1

Поскольку стример был бы мне полезен, но не особо необходим, автономные устройства будут намного дешевле и (на основании того, что я исследовал) будут предлагать аналогичную/лучшую производительность. Ребята, вы согласны?

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