Why do subwoofers have better bass than large speakers?

[Andysu]

dts demo cd disc goes well below 20Hz for music effects and digital dts surround , goes extremely dynamic below 20Hz use with caution ! titanic dts cd music is also wow

 

[Andysu]

mama mia!

thanks but have you the dynamic values of this CD ?

stay tuned i may do live video today . maybe in next hour or so .

 

[polmuaddib]

I could be very wrong, of course.

I quickly removed the content above 20 Hz in one song, and I admit I can't hear anything over headphones or AVR with subs connected. Subs just don't turn on
There is visible content, but I don't hear anything.
I might have done poor filtering in audacity, but it is more likely that I don't really hear anything below 20 Hz.
So, I was wrong.

 

[Andysu]

actual low end in the real world recorded on spectrum lab , maybe best spectrum waterfall recorder , period !
this was around 2013 , took the laptop out with spl meter and travelled around on ( yellow buses no longer exist now they went liquidated few month ago now ) all day ticket for a hour or so . you can see clearly lows going down almost onto 1Hz that be mechanical vibrations and other lows all random . you won't see that on most movie mixes inside cars vans trucks buses or even trains . it would be filtered to some degree . spl on the bus at times is uncomfortable 100dbc when bus comes idle at bus stop as the pitch of the engine produces around 35Hz at 100dbc , play any sine wave in your home at that 100dbc , you be turning down ! when bus is moving spl drops to around 90dbc .

 

[Andysu]

lifeforce , laserdisc print release theatrical mix Dolby Stereo , THX sound system . nice lows on the JBL THX system . my cat , Bear didn't seem to mind the low end .

 

[Andysu]

The very start of Edge of Tomorrow is a great piece of sound to test infrasonics. Organs also reach infrasonics (listening to Bach in some cathedrals shows it).

Man, how much fun it is to get your ribcage rattling.

those low ends are in centre channel and LFE.1 not many know this fact . they assume it's all in the LFE.1 as most have their systems set with bass management .i run system full range as what cinemas run at .

 

[Vacceo]

those low ends are in centre channel and LFE.1 not many know this fact . they assume it's all in the LFE.1 as most have their systems set with bass management .i run system full range as what cinemas run at .

Do THX specifications employ real full range (including infrasonics) on every speaker?

 

[Andysu]

Do THX specifications employ real full range (including infrasonics) on every speaker?

well have you ever seen same film more than twice at regular cinema and then seen it a THX cinema and if so name of movie , cinema and location .

 

[sarumbear]

True enough, but think I've read of some who had both going on for recording purposes particularly....

Yes, that is what I said above, its called direct injection where you record the output of the guitar as well as the sound from the cabinet with a microphone. This is mainly done for bass guitars as their cabinets are big and not easy to accommodate in studios. However, this is not done on live recordings.

 

[sarumbear]

I didn't know that. It makes sense. But I don't think it is brickwalled. View attachment 234808View attachment 234809View attachment 234810
These are three different songs I chose randomly and analized their spectrum in Audacity.
And you can see that the content below 20 Hz is filtered and attenuated, but not gone completely. You can see it is even louder, in some parts of the song, then 800 Hz parts.
How audible that spectrum below 20 Hz is? It is very faint, but I believe it is audible with speakers that reach that low...
I could be very wrong, of course.

There is no need to use a steeper filter on the bass frequencies as it is with the digital sampling filter to limit distortion. You only care about audibility. Other than the 1st example which is odd as it even has DC output(!) the frequencies below 20Hz are cut at 1st (2nd sample) and 2nd order (2nd order) filters. On the 3rd sample for instance 10Hz is muted by 20dB (100x). That is inaudible.

 

[Vacceo]

well have you ever seen same film more than twice at regular cinema and then seen it a THX cinema and if so name of movie , cinema and location .

I live in nowhereland, so I cannot get picky with THX certifications.

 

[Prana Ferox]

About music,my nephew decided to try an electric bass guitar along with his classical studies.
Searching to built a two 15" cabinet all the pro bass speaker companies (like eminence for example) recommend an HPF at 30-35-40Hz and very steep in some occasions.
There is content down to 20Hz in music,but not as much as we think,it's really rare and I have posted some similar content myself in Bass thread.

Been discussed before but 'bass guitar' really is not the 'deep bass' instrument people think it is. High-passing higher than this, i.e. 80hz or higher, either actively or through cabinet design is common, because in a live environment anything below that is just mud and rumble. People (including and especially bassists) get confused thinking they have to reproduce the fundamental notes of the low string when it's the harmonics that matter.

2x15's are pretty out of style but even then a bassist goes to a cabinet like that for SPL, not for low end extension. The HPF is to protect the driver from exceeding xmax (and the amp from dumping power pointlessly.)

There is plenty of low-bass content in certain music but it's going to be from synth/electronic, organ etc.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

lifeforce , laserdisc print release theatrical mix Dolby Stereo , THX sound system . nice lows on the JBL THX system . my cat , Bear didn't seem to mind the low end .

Lifeforce is a good movie.

 

[Dal1as]

I watched an RTA while listening to various music, stevie Nick's, Steely Dan, a live recording album from SRV and a Blues musician who's name I can't remember. There was plenty of energy down to 20 to 30 hz from the kick drum and upright bass. In fact some recordings captured the vocalists breath when singing that was below 40 hz if I remember right. Made the person seem like they were in the room. This was at a dolby lab a friend took me too and I also tried it at home after doing all my bass management and bass curve down to 20 hz. Mostly good recordings. On other less well recorded music not so much.

Someone mentioned the db increase needed to hear/feel low bass and it's always been my understanding that is why a bass curve is needed. Especially if you want that kick in the chest from the kick drum and such.

 

[dasdoing]

sympathetic resonance will cause room modes to be excited at frequencies below the actual base frequency of an instrument. it's normaly not musical though (rumble), and that's why it will be high-passed if audible. normaly classic recording rooms are big enough to not produce audible rumble

 

[Georgios]

No offense Andysu, looking at your disc collection I feel I’m reading posts from last century. Lol. Those LDs and DTS discs were luxury items back in the days when I was student who could never afford them.

 

[F1308]

No offense Andysu, looking at your disc collection I feel I’m reading posts from last century. Lol. Those LDs and DTS discs were luxury items back in the days when I was student who could never afford them.

Regardless of the bass content any astounding record might have, you have been insisting in how tiny your room is.

Listen to this interview, if you please, where a loudspeaker maker warns about spending any money on their flagship product if it is to be placed on a 3x3 meters room...

Podcast: Inside the Buchardt A700 with Mads Buchardt | Darko.Audio

We dive deeper into the Danish company's active floorstander, its driver configuration, master tunings, room correction, measurements, DSP, external pre-amplifiers, WISA and more.

darko.audio

 

[F1308]

Regardless of the astounding equipment, the bass is nevertheless restricted to 340.294*(((T+273.15)/288.15)^0.5)/2/L, being T temperature in Celsius and L the length in meters of the room the loudspeakers are pointed to, isn't it ?

 

[F1308]

The funny thing about that equation above is the temperature.

We have been told that the minimum detected variation in pitch is 5 cents, known as Just Noticeable Difference in Pitch.
A semitone, equal temperament, has 100 cents.
Set A4, MIDI #69, to 440 Hz and the lowest key (A0, MIDI #21) is 27.5 Hz, 88-key keyboard piano.
At this frequency a 5 cents change means
5/1200*log(X/27.5) going down, X being 27.42069 and 5/1200*log(27.5/X) going up, X being 27.57954. A mean change of say 0.08 will do.
Yes, we will detect 8/100 of an Hertz !!!!
If the length of the room is 6.2 meters to grant 27.5 Hz, any 2 degrees of temperature variation ( 15-17-19-21-23-25-27 ) will affect the lower bass in a range human beings will detect it, 0.5656 Hz in pitch change from 15 C to 27 C.

Same computing for bass at 16 Hz, but calling for a room offering 11 meters, equates 5 cents to a mere 5/100 Hertz, the temperature change remaining at 2 C to detect the changes, 0.3188 Hz variation in pitch this time, also going 15 C to 27 C.

At last, peace of mind, I understand why my equipment was offering "more body" in winter at 15 C than in summer, at 27 C.

Then comes relative humidity...

www.stereophile.com
Humidity, Concert Hall Sound & Spectral Tilt
www.stereophile.com www.stereophile.com

 

[Georgios]

Regardless of the bass content any astounding record might have, you have been insisting in how tiny your room is.

Listen to this interview, if you please, where a loudspeaker maker warns about spending any money on their flagship product if it is to be placed on a 3x3 meters room...

Podcast: Inside the Buchardt A700 with Mads Buchardt | Darko.Audio

We dive deeper into the Danish company's active floorstander, its driver configuration, master tunings, room correction, measurements, DSP, external pre-amplifiers, WISA and more.

darko.audio

That’s why I’m reasonably choosing KH750 over KH810 or other ported subs. Link doesn’t work btw.