why do 7" drivers have better soundstage and presence than 5" drivers ?

[fineMen]

then why are there much less 3 way speakers than 2 way speakers and .... why don't we build a multi way speaker where each fundamental frequency is played by a single speaker ? (starting at 32 hz as going under is hard, 64hz, 128hz ... 11 drivers would be enough for content ranging from 32 hz up to 32khz

It was the BBC to establish, back then, quite good 2-way designs as the go-to solution. Now as intermodulation distortion from recording tape and vinyl engraving and pick-up is virtually a non-issue a desire for more clarity in this regard .. I try to promote it. I think especially Adam Audio offers something alike, and Dynaudio.
11-way, sure, why not. Don't we just live for excellent reproduction of what is left after the recording session?

ps: a three way would most probably use a smaller midrange. An engineer's wet dream to solve two problems in one move: dispersion is evened out and bass modulation is decoupled from midband. Guess what the impact on general sound quality would be, also in regrad to what you call 'soundstage' and 'presence'?

 

[Digby]

There is no rule of thumb related to driver size and soundstage in the way you are looking for here.

I think what sigbergaudio is saying is correct. Even if what you're saying applies to these two Adam speakers, you can't necessarily extrapolate outwards and say this is a feature of all speakers.

It may be, but then you would need a fair bit more evidence to put that forward that as a working theory/rule of thumb.

 

[amanieux]

I think what sigbergaudio is saying is correct. Even if what you're saying applies to these two Adam speakers, you can't necessarily extrapolate outwards and say this is a feature of all speakers.

It may be, but then you would need a fair bit more evidence to put that forward that as a working theory/rule of thumb.

that is why i ask the question here, no one here ever head a 5" and 7" side by side at home or in a shop ? that can confirm or refute the claim of 7" sounding wider than 5" as we hear in this video ?

 

[Digby]

that is why i ask the question here, no one here ever head a 5" and 7" side by side at home or in a shop ? that can confirm or refute this hypothese of 7" sounding wider than 5" as we hear in this video ?

It is certainly possible, I wouldn't say it wasn't, but it is something which is very hard to measure to say for sure, when comparing all such similar speakers.

If you notice a pattern across other speakers, I'd pay attention to it (personally), but you will have a hard time convincing others. This gets even more difficult when we consider what do we mean by soundstage and presence. I think we'd be hard pressed to get a definitive answer/definition as to what those things are, although we all 'know them when we hear them'.

FWIW I prefer larger speakers where possible because I think there is something to larger speakers, all else being similar, compared to smaller ones that sounds more 'true to life' - doubly so when run without a subwoofer. Everything depends on use case and space available, of course.

If you think that you are hearing this phenomena across multiple speakers, then I suppose it would be wise to trust your ears (a position opposite to what many would take here). In the end, you only have yourself (and maybe a partner) to please.

 

[sigbergaudio]

that is why i ask the question here, no one here ever head a 5" and 7" side by side at home or in a shop ? that can confirm or refute the claim of 7" sounding wider than 5" as we hear in this video ?

I can refute it. You even refuted it yourself with your EQ stunt, you say they now sound similar despite the fact that they are still a 5" and a 7" ?

 

[amanieux]

I can refute it. You even refuted it yourself with your EQ stunt, you say they now sound similar despite the fact that they are still a 5" and a 7" ?

so you heard no sounstage difference with your own ears when playing side by side 2 different speaker size from the same brand/family of speakers ? which size where they ?
the eq stunt point to a directionfor an explanation not a behavior in real world, unlike you i think a recording of speaker has some ground truth attached to it

 

[Andrej]

I may be belaboring a point, anyway here goes:
1: Larger cone will have different directivity, especially around 1kHz and up, where we are very sensitive, and soundstage in a typical room will heavily depend on reflections from walls, making a 7" cone sound different from a 5" cone, all other things being equal. Which is better, that is another story...
2: Larger cone will typically have lower distortion, all other things being equal, which might contribute
My personal preference is to minimize reflections by controlling directivity using waveguides down to 150-300Hz, which implies that I would prefer the narrower directivity of a 7" PISTONIC driver. Non-pistonic drivers would obviously behave differently in terms of directivity.

 

[sigbergaudio]

so you heard no sounstage difference with your own ears when playing side by side 2 different speaker size from the same brand/family of speakers ? which size where they ?
the eq stunt point to a directionfor an explanation not a behavior in real world, unlike you i think a recording of speaker has some ground truth attached to it

I will try to be more precise:

Some major components affecting the experience of soundstage is:
Frequency response
Dispersion characteristics
The room you and the speakers are sitting in, and where you are located within it.

There are no inherent characteristics of a 5" driver that will prevent it from providing a wide soundstage.


What you have heard are two different speakers, where one sounded more pleasing to you. You are now trying to find a simple and general reason behind this difference, namely the size of the bass/midrange driver. Such a simple and general reason do not exist.

 

[Digby]

What you have heard are two different speakers, where one sounded more pleasing to you. You are now trying to find a simple and general reason behind this difference, namely the size of the bass/midrange driver. Such a simple and general reason do not exist.

however, if it helps him choose between these two speakers, then it may be useful in this particularly scenario - as long as he doesn't extrapolate outwards.

 

[sigbergaudio]

however, if it helps him choose between these two speakers, then it may be useful in this particularly scenario - as long as he doesn't extrapolate outwards.

The difference between those two speakers (in the recording at least) is quite significant, and the tuning / tonality sounds quite different as well. I have no idea if this is actually inherent to the speakers or an artifact of the recording somehow. There's nothing particular with 5" drivers that would cause the F5 to sounds this much "worse" than the F7. So as far as I can understand, that theory is a dead end.

 

[Digby]

There's nothing particular with 5" drivers that would cause the F5 to sounds this much "worse" than the F7. So as far as I can understand, that theory is a dead end.

Indeed - it would be something that would take enormous effort and time to properly evaluate, hence my comment about not extrapolating outwards (suggesting all 7" drivers are better than 5" ones).

 

[AudiOhm]

Darn, does this mean a 1" tweeter has no sound stage...

Ohms

 

[fineMen]

Darn, does this mean a 1" tweeter has no sound stage...

Ohms

And sure enough a 21" bass will take the soundstage.

 

[amanieux]

What you have heard are two different speakers, where one sounded more pleasing to you. You are now trying to find a simple and general reason behind this difference, namely the size of the bass/midrange driver. Such a simple and general reason do not exist.

you are correct, i was wrong from the start, i found other videos comparing 5 and 7 inches monitors in the same family and the difference is as expected minimal so either f7 is way better than f5 as a glitch in their product line either the recording had a fluke

-> mystery closed, thank you guys, sorry loosing your time, no difference in soundtage only slight bass extension difference (as we can hear from these 2 other videos) - why do speaker manufacturer offer product so close sounding ?
can i erase this long unnecessary thread myself ? or can the moderator please do it

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Low frequency capacity and capability will improve soundstage and sensation of space. It's not the driver size in it self that is better or worse with regards to soundstage.

This was on top of page 2. -Why is the thread then 5 pages long?

 

[fpitas]

This was on top of page 2. -Why is the thread then 5 pages long?

People love to argue.

 

[sigbergaudio]

This was on top of page 2. -Why is the thread then 5 pages long?

When did facts stop a forum thread on the internet from evolving (devolving?) in random directions?

 

[Digby]

People love to argue.

No we don't!

 

[YSC]

Indeed - it would be something that would take enormous effort and time to properly evaluate, hence my comment about not extrapolating outwards (suggesting all 7" drivers are better than 5" ones).

not even valid on the F5 vs F7 also IMO, when tonality being this different, it can be one set is broken, have some sort of EQ switch enabled or soft EQ to make the comparison more pronounced, or just one hit some kind of room mode in that particular scenario.. so many variables can make it like that.

I recently just found the same situation where a friend with a properly treated room, a pair of BBC LS3/5A speaker sounded quite good there, then another guy borrowed what pair he thought have gorgeous soundstange, back to his home and bedroom it instantly becomes Meh, such cases are all over the place.

 

[Digby]

not even valid on the F5 vs F7 also IMO, when tonality being this different, it can be one set is broken, have some sort of EQ switch enabled or soft EQ to make the comparison more pronounced, or just one hit some kind of room mode in that particular scenario.. so many variables can make it like that.

When everything is so complicated, sometimes ignorance can be a strength (speaking from experience here).