Why are you still buying expensive premium gears when cheap stuff does the same

[Waxx]

A decent amp costs anywhere from $100-1500 depending on what you need it to do.

I would not say that, i'm putting an amp/dsp rig for a stereo system for a very big room (still private living room, but for a rich guy) and the amp rig alone is more than a few grants, with no snake oil involved. As his room is big, and he wants a wide dispertion (so when he has a living room party everybody hears the music right) we need to move to movie theater speakers and the power they need is huge. Especially the subs need a lot of power. That's why we need pro audio amps to have enough power and good ones (Lab Gruppen or Powersoft, we still discussing) cost a lot. As they standard have noisy fans, we will have to mod them also (what also costs money). We need at least 3kW RMS power for each sub (there are 4 of them) and 2 x 800W & 85w for the main speakers. The space is 12x20x5m and is semi-treated in the sense that the inner walls are 30cm thick loam plaster that has very good acoustic specs next to very good heath insulation and humidity regulation specs. Floor and ceiling are solid wood with behind thick isolation. The total rig will be arround 40K€ we guess at the moment, which is still cheaper than some cables some use .

I guess for bigger home theater setups, it will be similar. There is a lot of very high quality that can be had cheap today (which is great), but not everything can be done cheap. Especially if you want a lot of headroom for uncompromised result (no distorted transients) like we do here.

 

[Bleib]

With loudspeakers and AVRs it's difficult to get great quality very cheaply. Otherwise I agree, I'd never buy a 1000 USD DAC for instance.

 

[kemmler3D]

I would not say that, i'm putting an amp/dsp rig for a stereo system for a very big room (still private living room, but for a rich guy) and the amp rig alone is more than a few grants, with no snake oil involved. As his room is big, and he wants a wide dispertion (so when he has a living room party everybody hears the music right) we need to move to movie theater speakers and the power they need is huge. Especially the subs need a lot of power. That's why we need pro audio amps to have enough power and good ones (Lab Gruppen or Powersoft, we still discussing) cost a lot. As they standard have noisy fans, we will have to mod them also (what also costs money). We need at least 3kW RMS power for each sub (there are 4 of them) and 2 x 800W & 85w for the main speakers. The space is 12x20x5m and is semi-treated in the sense that the inner walls are 30cm thick loam plaster that has very good acoustic specs next to very good heath insulation and humidity regulation specs. Floor and ceiling are solid wood with behind thick isolation. The total rig will be arround 40K€ we guess at the moment, which is still cheaper than some cables some use .

I guess for bigger home theater setups, it will be similar. There is a lot of very high quality that can be had cheap today (which is great), but not everything can be done cheap. Especially if you want a lot of headroom for uncompromised result (no distorted transients) like we do here.

Sure, but what you are describing is way beyond what I had in mind for "A decent amp". I meant basically the range between Fosi and a cheaper Hypex amp, for stereo speakers.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

A $200 DAC can do almost everything you want in a common playback system. Amplifiers that have enough power and distortion cost less and less, too. Why spend $1K on IEMs when a random Chinese brand can almost outperform most of them under $50? Expensive streamers, CD transport and DAPs are well proved . . .

That's what you get by starting off on false assumptions!
I bought one of those $50 IEMs you mention based on the review here on ASR.
Took me a week to give it away. No comparison to my $400 Senn's.
I also bought a Wiim mini, OK it worked, but with enough hassle for me to get rid of it.
You may have a partial point, but ......

 

[Waxx]

Sure, but what you are describing is way beyond what I had in mind for "A decent amp". I meant basically the range between Fosi and a cheaper Hypex amp, for stereo speakers.

But for many they don't give the functionality that they require, be it power, processing, connectivity or sturdyness. Sound quality is not the only factor that people consider when buying equipment, it's also will it fit their needs on functionality. NAD sells basicly Hypex and Purifi amps with added functionality for a high price, and people are happy to pay those because of that. Even those who know how to diy those. But if a Fosi fits your needs, the better for your wallet. And no, not all my own amps are expensive, most are relative cheap but do the job they need to do.

 

[GaryY]

To me, it was clear I was looking for gears with objectively good performance so that at least it would not harm my subjective joy and needs.

 

[Bleib]

That's what you get by starting off on false assumptions!
I bought one of those $50 IEMs you mention based on the review here on ASR.
Took me a week to give it away. No comparison to my $400 Senn's.
I also bought a Wiim mini, OK it worked, but with enough hassle for me to get rid of it.
You may have a partial point, but ......

I have two different IEMs around the 50 price range. I very much prefer the other.. obviously not everything works well, not the preference.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I have two different IEMs around the 50 price range. I very much prefer the other.. obviously not everything works well, not the preference.

I wasn't talking about my preferences.
The cheaper Chinese brand, just sounded flat and distorted, yet on the review, it was The perfect IEM.
Price alone does not dictate quality, I have had £20 IEMs that sounded decent.
What I am saying is Neither the high price nor the low price is an indication of delivering final sound quality.
And when it comes to transducers, objective measurements can only tell if the device is broken or not.
But on electronics, it is a different story. But still, there are hardly any cheap amps that can sound as good as some special amps that can cost a lot.
Nothing is cheap for no reason! as they say

 

[BobbyTimmons]

I wasn't talking about my preferences.
The cheaper Chinese brand, just sounded flat and distorted, yet on the review, it was The perfect IEM.
Price alone does not dictate quality, I have had £20 IEMs that sounded decent.
What I am saying is Neither the high price nor the low price is an indication of delivering final sound quality.
And when it comes to transducers, objective measurements can only tell if the device is broken or not.
But on electronics, it is a different story. But still, there are hardly any cheap amps that can sound as good as some special amps that can cost a lot.
Nothing is cheap for no reason! as they say

Some of the IEMs which are well reviewed on here sound subjectively worse than cheap Sony IEMs from 20 years ago. The proof of the pudding is in the eating with audio equipment. Measurements are a great preview that's all. I'm afraid you still have to listen yourself and make your own judgement as the most important piece of measuring equipment is your brain.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

A decent amp costs anywhere from $100-1500 depending on what you need it to do.

A decent ATV costs about $8K. So if we use the same proportions and a $25K amp is for a rich guy, the rich guy's ATV would cost at least $135K. I think most would consider that ridiculous.

Doubly so if the $135K ATV had effectively identical performance to the $8K one.

Now try to do the same for wine.

 

[kemmler3D]

But for many they don't give the functionality that they require, be it power, processing, connectivity or sturdyness. Sound quality is not the only factor that people consider when buying equipment, it's also will it fit their needs on functionality. NAD sells basicly Hypex and Purifi amps with added functionality for a high price, and people are happy to pay those because of that. Even those who know how to diy those. But if a Fosi fits your needs, the better for your wallet. And no, not all my own amps are expensive, most are relative cheap but do the job they need to do.

Yes, and an ATV may not meet one's transportation needs either... you might need a dump truck at 10x the cost, who knows? My point was just about the relative cost of somewhat-above-entry-level hobby stuff.

 

[Bleib]

I wasn't talking about my preferences.
The cheaper Chinese brand, just sounded flat and distorted, yet on the review, it was The perfect IEM.
Price alone does not dictate quality, I have had £20 IEMs that sounded decent.
What I am saying is Neither the high price nor the low price is an indication of delivering final sound quality.
And when it comes to transducers, objective measurements can only tell if the device is broken or not.
But on electronics, it is a different story. But still, there are hardly any cheap amps that can sound as good as some special amps that can cost a lot.
Nothing is cheap for no reason! as they say

Well, that's what I'm saying. Two similar perfect IEMs to me sound different, I very much prefer one over the other so there's a difference here. I actually even prefer the cheaper one over the more expensive one as it's also more comfortable. So, I'm saying another 50 USD:ish Chinese IEM could potentially be as good as the more expensive one you prefer, you just didn't buy the right one.

 

[Steve Dallas]

The way the question is phrased makes it appear as a binary choice. Why can't there be shades of gray? ASR has cured my magical thinking. I now know how to prioritize my purchases and where to spend my money, and I use that knowledge to save money. If you look at my signature, you will see most of my gear is fairly inexpensive and that most of my budget is spent on speakers. I do support North American manufacturers where possible with new purchases, even if my cost is higher.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Well, that's what I'm saying. Two similar perfect IEMs to me sound different, I very much prefer one over the other so there's a difference here. I actually even prefer the cheaper one over the more expensive one as it's also more comfortable. So, I'm saying another 50 USD:ish Chinese IEM could potentially be as good as the more expensive one you prefer, you just didn't buy the right one.

Lovely, I am glad you are getting me, for a moment I had my suspicions!
A lot of us, do not want to go through $50 IEMs one after another.
We much rather, pay the extra, go to a more reputable/dependable manufacturer, pay extra! and . . . just try one or two. Knowing the better, more expensive manufacturer would have a better return, " satisfaction guarantee" policy.
That ..... is yet another reason why some people may pay extra.

 

[prerich]

A $200 DAC can do almost everything you want in a common playback system. Amplifiers that have enough power and distortion cost less and less, too. Why spend $1K on IEMs when a random Chinese brand can almost outperform most of them under $50? Expensive streamers, CD transport and DAPs are well proved that they can do nothing more. Maybe expensive headphones and speakers can prove them well deserved but there are also many cheap ones performs greatly. ASR can help so many people save a significant amount of money on audio equipment by letting people realize all of these facts.

I think there are many members who are willing to purchase premium, expensive gears knowing all of that, for one reason or another. This thread is not an actual question but rather a survey. To you who are knowledgeable about measurements and blind tests in audio: what are some of your reasons to spend money on more expensive items when dirt cheap ones functioned the same.

Resale value.

 

[Triliza]

Resale value.

Most of the time I don't think this will work exactly like that. Even if we agree that someone won't be able to sell the cheap stuff at all, the price of it may be the same as (a best case scenario) of loosing only 10% of the value on a resale for an expensive item.

So essentially you don't gain any profit from choosing one over the other. Of course there are other reasons to prefer expensive stuff as stated in this thread, saving money is not one of them imho. Not loosing much is good thinking though.

 

[Overseas]

Last month I bought a pair of Benchmark AHB2s, a LA4 and a DAC3 HGC, could I have paid less for some other equipment, absolutely, but I bought the models and the brand of what I wanted. I wanted service, the factory is 10 miles away, if I have a question, they always answer the phone, not some 3-4 day wait for a email (if ever), I’m retired, close to 70, I want it to be hopefully the last audio equipment purchase, I ever make. My stereo runs 10-12 hours everyday, I want to function flawlessly.

Clearly that's a brand with 10 miles target audience, I mean the Benchmark.

You convinced me to buy it. First I will call my real estate agent, of course.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Sometimes it's the feature set. No question about it a $200 DAC will do the basic D to A conversion every bit as well as my $1500 Octo Dac 8 Pro. But it will only do it for two channels, the Octo does eight. Moreover, the Octo has feature where something can be input via spdif (AES/EBU, actually) and then sent via USB to a DAW (my PC, actually) where it can have all manner of DSP performed on it, then sent back back over the same USB line to the Octo and have the DSP'd signal then converted to analog. And that can also happen for up to eight channels.

So, for me that means I can receive Netflix on my Pc, have the 5.1 channel audio processed by Dirac, have JRiver do bass management, and then send the entire thing to the Octo to get 118 DB Sinad D to A conversion. Moreover, I can use the remaining two channels to receive the output of my Smyth A16 Realiser via AES/EBU and send the virtualized binaural 24 channel LPCM to my headphone amp. Finally, I can also receive the Spdif off my LG Oled, send that signal after it's received by the Octo, to my PC, to have Dirac do room and speaker correction, and create a crossover and send the 2+2 signal back to the Octo to send to my main speakers and subs. So, yeah, worth everything I paid for it. Only DAC I use in my home systems, and the only DAC I think I will every need.

 

[prerich]

Most of the time I don't think this will work exactly like that. Even if we agree that someone won't be able to sell the cheap stuff at all, the price of it may be the same as (a best case scenario) of loosing only 10% of the value on a resale for an expensive item.

So essentially you don't gain any profit from choosing one over the other. Of course there are other reasons to prefer expensive stuff as stated in this thread, saving money is not one of them imho. Not loosing much is good thinking though.

I see your point, but there's also those who buy things like McIntosh or Accuphase on the used market, get a nice deal on it, and may come out ahead. The going rate for used Klipsch Cornwalls is a ridiculous $2500....but before covid, it was $800 to $1000. I've seen Heresy 1's sell for over $700! These owners are making a profit, especially on vintage gear. I don't know what happened - but the vintage market is actually making a profit