Matching ultra high-end speakers with a (good) cheap amp?

[JustAnAudioLover]

Hi there!

I have a question of which I asked a variation recently, but I want to ensure I understand things correctly.

Let's say you are rich and get a pair of Focal's Grande Utopia speakers. These are 250 000 € a pair. Six-figure speakers.

They have a sensitivity of 94 dB and are rated for amplifiers ranging from 50 to 1500 W. Their nominal impedance is 8 ohms.

Given these informations, would a cheap but well-designed amplifier like Topping's PA5 (2x 100W, verified on ASR) sound as good to the human ear as any $100 000 ultra high-end amp (if you listen at a very moderate volume)?

Many people say here that well-designed amps are acoustically indistinguishable, so does that mean it would actually make sense to pair 250 000 € speakers with a 170 € amp, which is more than 1000x less expensive ?

(Note that obviously if you have the money to purchase 250 000 € speakers, that means money is not an object in the first place, and you can absolutely treat yourself to some great 2x 1000 W top-of-the-line amplifiers, I'm just curious whether the Topping - or any other - would be as good as long as you don't exceed the amplifier's maximum output power)

Thanks in advance for your answers

 

[Thomas Savage]

I'd rather a £250 000 speaker and transparent £200 amp than a £200 pair of speakers with a £250 000 amp .

Iv got non ultra highend speakers running cheaper amps that are around 20x less expensive going on today's prices.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Hi there!

I have a question of which I asked a variation recently, but I want to ensure I understand things correctly.

Let's say you are rich and get a pair of Focal's Grande Utopia speakers. These are 250 000 € a pair. Six-figure speakers.

They have a sensitivity of 94 dB and are rated for amplifiers ranging from 50 to 1500 W. Their nominal impedance is 8 ohms.

Given these informations, would a cheap but well-designed amplifier like Topping's PA5 (2x 100W, verified on ASR) sound as good to the human ear as any $100 000 ultra high-end amp (if you listen at a very moderate volume)?

Many people say here that well-designed amps are acoustically indistinguishable, so does that mean it would actually make sense to pair 250 000 € speakers with a 170 € amp, which is more than 1000x less expensive ?

(Note that obviously if you have the money to purchase 250 000 € speakers, that means money is not an object in the first place, and you can absolutely treat yourself to some great 2x 1000 W top-of-the-line amplifiers, I'm just curious whether the Topping - or any other - would be as good as long as you don't exceed the amplifier's maximum output power)

Thanks in advance for your answers

I do not know the Topping but I am pretty confident that a pair of Buckeye 1ET9040BA monoblocks ($2300/pair) would be entirely suitable.

 

[DonH56]

I'd rather a £250 000 speaker and transparent £200 amp than a £200 pair of speakers with a £250 000 amp .

Iv got non ultra highend speakers running cheaper amps that are around 20x less expensive going on today's prices.

Exactly. Heads explode when I mention I am driving my Revels with Emotiva and Buckeye amps.

That said, if I had the money and was in the market for a new amp, I'd look at Benchmark's AHB2. Not cheap but an order of magnitude below most "high-end" amplifiers. I do appreciate build quality and all that jazz, but do not need an amp heavy enough to require a home remodel to support.

There are a lot of technical reasons amplifiers can sound different.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I might get an Audiophonics or Apollon just for a bit more power and aesthetics. If I spent a quarter million on speakers, I'd probably do that though I can be pretty hair shirted about such choices.

 

[ZolaIII]

@ClementNerma at 94 db rated speakers, let's realistically say 90 dB even 100W is more than you will ever need. However you need one that's very clean under 1W as that's how you will use it. Topping B200 monoblocks seam as best choice.

 

[dedobot]

Show some mercy to those Focals. Give them Pa7plus. I would have this combo at home

 

[Talisman]

Why would you pair a 200 euro amplifier with 250,000 euro speakers? It makes no sense, although acoustically in their power range they will surely sound indistinguishable from any other well-designed amplifier, but I would certainly never risk pairing such expensive speakers with an amplifier of questionable reliability that risks doing damage if it fails.
I would certainly opt for something of absolute reliability, something with aesthetics that I appreciate as well as a power of at least 300 watts per channel into 8 ohms.
That said, if the question is academic, obviously the audio quality will be indistinguishable from any well-designed amplifier.

 

[voodooless]

Ultra high end speakers are just as silly as ultra high end amps… it’s jewelry, nothing else.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

If I were sattisfied the Topping B200's had adequate protection circuitry so as to not destroy my speakers, I would not hesitate to pair them with the highest end Focals, Magicos, Wilson, Kefs, or Revels. I sincerely doubt anyone would in a blind level matched test hear any difference between the Toppings or, say, the top of the line Solutions, Hegels or any other super expensive solid state amp designed to deliver a flat, unprocessed signal to the speakers.

And, obviously, any Benchmark, or Purifi based solution is a gold standard.

 

[HalSF]

I get this is a what-if, but still this would be cool candidate for some blind testing.

Great expensive speakers, and see how extensive non-sighed volume-matched listening shakes out using an inexpensive Topping-style Class D amp, a more expensive Buckeye Class D, a classic mid-priced AB amp, and the Benchmark AHB2, plus maybe a respected “high-end” McIntosh or equivalent tube amp.

 

[dedobot]

Ultra high end speakers are just as silly as ultra high end amps… it’s jewelry, nothing else.

In defence of the Focal GU at least there is technological innovation , woofer with electromagnet.

 

[voodooless]

technological innovation , woofer with electromagnet.

You do realize that this “innovation” was first used in the 1920’s?

 

[ZolaIII]

This is what you need to ensure it staying transparent even on low to regular SPL with sensitive speakers. Not KW-ats. It's AB class (A-F with feedback biasing and fast rails switching, bridged) and they really didn't skimp on components so I don't see that one dying anytime soon. We can always nitpick but with 8 Ohms rated speakers you won't find one better behaving disreging of the price.

 

[JustAnAudioLover]

Why would you pair a 200 euro amplifier with 250,000 euro speakers? It makes no sense, although acoustically in their power range they will surely sound indistinguishable from any other well-designed amplifier, but I would certainly never risk pairing such expensive speakers with an amplifier of questionable reliability that risks doing damage if it fails.
I would certainly opt for something of absolute reliability, something with aesthetics that I appreciate as well as a power of at least 300 watts per channel into 8 ohms.
That said, if the question is academic, obviously the audio quality will be indistinguishable from any well-designed amplifier.

It would be pretty silly indeed, but I'm just taking an extreme example for the sake of the debate: are well-designed amps acoustically transparent even with ultra high-end speakers?

Everyone on this thread seems to agree. Now obviously with such speakers you would purchase a more powerful amp with all the safety circuits you want, and a better build quality, but my question was only about sound itself, hence the "weird" pairing.

 

[JustAnAudioLover]

Also, just to clarify - I don't intend on purchasing such speakers ; and I'll certainly never have enough money to buy them, even the Sopra no. 2 (14 000 € pair) would be WAYYYYYYYY out of my budget. I was just wondering about the need to buy expensive amps when you don't want any big power requirement.

 

[voodooless]

are well-designed amps acoustically transparent even with ultra high-end speakers?

Why not? What do you think an ultra high end speaker can do, that a normal high quality speaker cannot?

 

[Oddball]

It would be pretty silly indeed, but I'm just taking an extreme example for the sake of the debate: are well-designed amps acoustically transparent even with ultra high-end speakers?

Everyone on this thread seems to agree. Now obviously with such speakers you would purchase a more powerful amp with all the safety circuits you want, and a better build quality, but my question was only about sound itself, hence the "weird" pairing.

Question is indeed theoretical as you could, or someone else could, turn the volume to the max which might or might not have negative impact on the priceless Utopias. So the assumption not to drive small amp to distortion is reasonable but perhaps unsustainable over 15 year period. I did treat my gear well 99.99% of the time, but there were instances of break failures

 

[dedobot]

You do realize that this “innovation” was first used in the 1920’s?

I didn't know when but I assumed it had been tried before.. but cannot be denied as a distinguishing feature of grand utopia from the rest high-end wardrobes .

 

[ZolaIII]

Why not? What do you think an ultra high end speaker can do, that a normal high quality speaker cannot?

I had a contact with Diablos and Spora's hire trough ASR and they are well engineered and behaving speakers. Even those people (broker and banker) got them second hand and still for a healthy price. I can't say no if it's for aesthetics, after all it's their money. I am much more impresd with DIY community that boutique only items.