Matching ultra high-end speakers with a (good) cheap amp?

[ZolaIII]

Rubbish.
The fuel consumption is much worse (about double) because the calorific value is low.
It can produce more power, because it contains some oxygen, and run cooler but the consumption is dire.
I was amazed by the size of pump and hoses necessary on alcohol fuelled racing cars.

When I whose kid one of the hobbies whose building model gliders and rockets. There it was about simplicity and efficiency especial regarding wight. Two stroke single cilindar cuple mm bore motors and alcohol/oil mixture whose a main fule. Whosent in racing or monster trucks tho drove one of the most high pressure pump/head gasoline car motor there ever whose. Golf 2 GT KJ tronic (20+ year's ago and it whose my first car). Mechanics run away from it but I never had any problems with it, and it whose fun to drive.

 

[Frank Dernie]

For these speakers, an amplifier with high current capabilities is preferred to handle the 2-ohm dip in the bass from 40-60 Hz. While there isn't a phase measurement in the Stereophile data, we can reasonably assume it isn't zero, meaning you'll need an amplifier that is immune to EMF, such as well-regarded Class D modules from Hypex and Purifi. Alternatively, if opting for a Class A/B amplifier, choose one with high current capabilities that can handle 2-ohm loads, ideally going below that.

This rules out Topping, as suggested elsewhere.

Additionally, it's clear that the amplifier should have a frequency response that remains unaffected by load, given the sharp impedance peak in the sensitive area of 2-5 kHz.

An assessment of power requirements cannot be made without details on listening distance, typical listening volume, the genres of music played, and whether any room correction or EQ will be applied.

View attachment 438120

Yes true in principle but with a 94dB sensitivity neither power nor current are likely to be limits for domestic listening in reality.
Unlike with a 82dB sensitivity 2-way...

 

[Frank Dernie]

When I whose kid one of the hobbies whose building model gliders and rockets. There it was about simplicity and efficiency especial regarding wight. Two stroke single cilindar cuple mm bore motors and alcohol/oil mixture whose a main fule. Whosent in racing or monster trucks tho drove one of the most high pressure pump/head gasoline car motor there ever whose. Golf 2 GT KJ tronic (20+ year's ago and it whose my first car). Mechanics run away from it but I never had any problems with it, and it whose fun to drive.

Simple and light is good and alcohol is a very easy to use fuel because it runs cool and easily produces power without high technology, but good efficiency, no chance!

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Yes true in principle but with a 94dB sensitivity neither power nor current are likely to be limits for domestic listening in reality.
Unlike with a 82dB sensitivity 2-way...

It's impossible to determine without the missing details. But..

I'll assume these 175 cm, 210 kg speakers are not typically used in small rooms, and that the owner may also prefer listening at higher volumes occasionally.
As a result, they would likely need around 200 W of high-current power for transients at a 4-meter distance, with an average of 85 dB and 20 dB of headroom. This is based on a sensitivity of 94 dB, which is probably on the higher end. For reference, Stereophile lists the sensitivity as 92 dB.

 

[thewas]

When I whose kid one of the hobbies whose building model gliders and rockets. There it was about simplicity and efficiency especial regarding wight. Two stroke single cilindar cuple mm bore motors and alcohol/oil mixture whose a main fule.

Those small model engines use actually nitromethane mixed with methanol and of course some oil for lubrication being 2 stroke without an oil reservoir and make more than 500 hp per litre engine displacement.

Nitro engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ZolaIII]

Simple and light is good and alcohol is a very easy to use fuel because it runs cool and easily produces power without high technology, but good efficiency, no chance!

It's more about engineering really. Mentioned high pressure pump and K head valves very more efficient than turbine and with similar effect (higher compression and more strength still linear without turbo hole). I know how much it can suck when you switch it to smaller gear with pedal to the metal (you could literally hear pump suckling the fule) but average consumption whose actually fine. Later they combined it into one called it Bosch pump but for diesel engines. Last petrol car with such system whose UW Passat/Santana B2 RS and you won't find higher pressure system or pump on commercial petrol car. We used alcohol in flying combustion motor models and it gave higher range than same with gasoline and it whose competitive space (so did everyone) and I don't think that changed even today. Anyway that's my experience.

 

[Frank Dernie]

It's more about engineering really. Mentioned high pressure pump and K head valves very more efficient than turbine and with similar effect (higher compression and more strength still linear without turbo hole). I know how much it can suck when you switch it to smaller gear with pedal to the metal (you could literally hear pump suckling the fule) but average consumption whose actually fine. Later they combined it into one called it Bosh pump but for diesel engines. Last petrol car with such system whose UW Passat/Santana B2 RS and you won't find higher pressure system or pump on commercial petrol car. We used alcohol in flying combustion motor models and it gave higher range than same with gasoline and it whose competitive space (so did everyone) and I don't think that changed even today. Anyway that's my experience.

My only experience of alcohol in road cars is rental cars in Brazil when over for the Grand Prix, difficult to start and very high fuel consumption (about double that of petrol as one would expect from the engineering data).
Most experience has been in racing where the fuel consumption means lots of pit stops but allows pretty immense power and reliability from fairly crude engines.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

If the speaker impedance is benign, me thinks the Topping B200 would pair well with the 250k speaker.

But then if I had spent big bucks on a pair of Magico speakers, might as well pair it with an Accuphase or Luxman or McIntosh . Bling must go with more bling

Oh, like this?

Spoiler: Tightwad System

 

[DanielT]

If the speaker impedance is benign, me thinks the Topping B200 would pair well with the 250k speaker.

But then if I had spent big bucks on a pair of Magico speakers, might as well pair it with an Accuphase or Luxman or McIntosh . Bling must go with more bling

Topping B200 monoblock so two are needed then, total price around US $1200. Then you say bling. Luxman or McIntosh in all their glory but they can be really expensive. I would actually rather considered this one I saw sold for $750 a few days ago, an Onkyo M-508. From what I can see, a pretty attractive price for such an Onkyo.

According to the seller in very good condition. Okay around thirty-five years so servicing it with possible replacement of some capacitors plus other things that may be needed and the sensible thing to do. Such a piece of candy should be taken care of.

I don't know how it measures. I'm guessing completely ok or more than ok regarding measurements. I think it has enough power for most speakers, 200 watt at 8 Ohm, 315 at 4 Ohm.
(I took it as an example, I'm happy with my amps so someone else can buy that Onkyo)

Specifications:


Edit:
Then the usual disclaimer for buyers of vintage. You boxerfan88 know it, I'm sure, so more directed to others who read this thread. If you can't service the amplifier yourself and hand it over to a professional repairman who charges by the hour, it can be expensive, really expensive.

 

[Jakeh]

Given these informations, would a cheap but well-designed amplifier like Topping's PA5 (2x 100W, verified on ASR) sound as good to the human ear as any $100 000 ultra high-end amp (if you listen at a very moderate volume)?

No.

 

[Audionaut]

No.

The Question is: Why not?

 

[ferrellms]

Hi there!

I have a question of which I asked a variation recently, but I want to ensure I understand things correctly.

Let's say you are rich and get a pair of Focal's Grande Utopia speakers. These are 250 000 € a pair. Six-figure speakers.

They have a sensitivity of 94 dB and are rated for amplifiers ranging from 50 to 1500 W. Their nominal impedance is 8 ohms.

Given these informations, would a cheap but well-designed amplifier like Topping's PA5 (2x 100W, verified on ASR) sound as good to the human ear as any $100 000 ultra high-end amp (if you listen at a very moderate volume)?

Many people say here that well-designed amps are acoustically indistinguishable, so does that mean it would actually make sense to pair 250 000 € speakers with a 170 € amp, which is more than 1000x less expensive ?

(Note that obviously if you have the money to purchase 250 000 € speakers, that means money is not an object in the first place, and you can absolutely treat yourself to some great 2x 1000 W top-of-the-line amplifiers, I'm just curious whether the Topping - or any other - would be as good as long as you don't exceed the amplifier's maximum output power)

Thanks in advance for your answers

It would in all likelihood sound identical. Don't worry about making sense with high end audio - wealthy ignoramuses buy this stuff!

 

[mhardy6647]

This thread reminds me of... Randy.

plus silky smooth tone controls!
whoo-whee!