Why Luxury Goods & Audio are strange bedfellow's

[pablolie]

ahhh! therein lies the rub

there is something to be said for high priced gear when you don't know anything.... when you learn something there is less to be said about it.
...

I think that single sentence contains a non-linearity. There is no logic in assuming disposable money comes paired with ignorance. Show us the statistical proof. I know where you come from but you over-rotated.

 

[Count Arthur]

"Tell 100 people you just bought a new Harley, Ducati, or Porsche 911, and you’ll probably have at least a dozen new friends that want to hang with you."

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to hang out with anyone that wanted to hang out with me just because of the car I owned, or the watch or DAC, for that matter.

I like nice things, I appreciate craftsmanship, but if someone liked me for a possession, I would view them as shallow.

 

[pablolie]

...

I like nice things, I appreciate craftsmanship, but if someone liked me for a possession, I would view them as shallow.

But people that like the same nice possessions may get along well with each other, shallow as that shared like may be. Nothing wrong with that. We are all here on ASR because we actually share a "like" that 99.99% of the rest of the world could not care any less about. Funny we keep arguing about how stupid we all are because of the nuances in our common "like"... :-D

 

[mhardy6647]

I realized a long time ago that I could drive Fords* and retire at a reasonable age, or drive nice cars and have to work 'til I die.
I retired at 56. We live pretty comfortably; hardly extravagantly, though.
I think I made the prudent choice.


_________________
* at the time I realized this, we were both driving Fords.

 

[pablolie]

I realized a long time ago that I could drive Fords* and retire at a reasonable age, or drive nice cars and have to work 'til I die.
I retired at 56. We live pretty comfortably; hardly extravagantly, though.
I think I made the prudent choice.
_________________
* at the time I realized this, we were both driving Fords.

Happy for you -but that doesn't mean that's the path to make everybody else happy. I mean zero judgment in saying that, clearly worked for you, and that's always to be celebrated.
But our world is such that sometimes, even making all the best choices, things don't quite work out as anticipated. It could also work out differently. Let's say in 1999 I could have easily indulged and bought my dream car a Bentley Continental. Used. 100k. Easy. And I didn't. Then things change and there's no way i would consider it. I could but it'd be against my nature. But for 20 years after you still kick your own butt for not doing it when you could have easily done it, yet stopped yourself.

 

[Count Arthur]

But people that like the same nice possessions may get along well with each other, shallow as that shared like may be. Nothing wrong with that. We are all here on ASR because we actually share a "like" that 99.99% of the rest of the world could not care any less about. Funny we keep arguing about how stupid we all are because of the nuances in our common "like"... :-D

We are all here to talk about music and equipment as enthusiasts with a shared passion, and that's all fine. However, I see that as a very different thing to very obvious and overt status status symbols, such as expensive watches or cars.

Most of my close friends have no clue what a DAC is, or or bit rates, or the difference between active or passive speakers, etc. and neither are they interested, so I don't bore them with it.

I come here and bore you guys instead.

 

[pablolie]

We are all here to talk about music and equipment as enthusiasts with a shared passion, and that's all fine. However, I see that as a very different thing to very obvious and overt status status symbols, such as expensive watches or cars.

When it comes to making such calls, we make them based on our own preferences. Not necessarily based on the assumption others may see these things differently. Let's say you feel good about dishing out $20k Kii speakers. I understand. But what allows you to call the $20k I spend on an Audermars Piguet watch any "different"?

*Both* represent the exact same kind of hobbyist preference the vast majority of people don't remotely care about.

Most of my close friends have no clue what a DAC is, or or bit rates, or the difference between active or passive speakers, etc. and neither are they interested, so I don't bore them with it.

I come here and bore you guys instead.

It's safe to say we are all here for the exact same reason.

 

[Jim Taylor]

Different people are driven by different desires.

1) Some people are driven by the desire to purchase luxury items for exclusivity and snobbery.
Purchasing certain merchandise allows them to display this to the public.
If onlookers are impressed with the merchandise, it serves its purpose, no matter what the merchandise is.
If onlookers are not impressed with the merchandise, the focus shifts to a different type of merchandise.
For this function to succeed, interaction between the purchaser and the public is necessary.

2) Some people are driven by the desire to purchase luxury items as compensation for low self-esteem. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9869260/
Purchasing certain merchandise allows them to compensate internally.
It is not necessary for there to be onlookers ... in fact, onlookers may disrupt the internal self-dialogue of the purchaser.
Therefore, for this function to succeed, interaction between the purchaser and the public is neither necessary nor desirable.

In my almost 60 years of exposure to so-called audiophiles, I've seen more of the second type than the first.

 

[pablolie]

Different people are driven by different desires.

1) Some people are driven by the desire to purchase luxury items for exclusivity and snobbery.
Purchasing certain merchandise allows them to display this to the public.
If onlookers are impressed with the merchandise, it serves its purpose, no matter what the merchandise is.
If onlookers are not impressed with the merchandise, the focus shifts to a different type of merchandise.
For this function to succeed, interaction between the purchaser and the public is necessary.

2) Some people are driven by the desire to purchase luxury items as compensation for low self-esteem. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9869260/
Purchasing certain merchandise allows them to compensate internally.
It is not necessary for there to be onlookers ... in fact, onlookers may disrupt the internal self-dialogue of the purchaser.
Therefore, for this function to succeed, interaction between the purchaser and the public is neither necessary nor desirable.

In my almost 60 years of exposure to so-called audiophiles, I've seen more of the second type than the first.

You narrow it down to negative motivations because they don't fall down under your personal preferences.

There's also a group of people that buy upscale mechanical watches because they love them yet never wear them to impress anyone or show them off. Most people don't recognize them anyway a fake Rolez will get more attention than a Blancpain or Vacheron or Jaeger or Franck Muller or a bunch others. I own expensive mechanical watches (some of them I have not worn in public for over 20 years -certainly never at work- because it sends a wrong message), and have stayed very aware of it. Same with the expensive cars they I may have occasionally owned.

I completely disagree that people just own "luxury goods" to impress others. Some buy a $100M DeKooning to hang in their office overlooking Central Park. Some have bought them to just very privately enjoy them in a secret room they never give access to anyone else.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Ahhh … there in lies the rub

Perhaps that says it all

 

[EJ3]

Indeed and that's the point. When we decide to dispose of available money, the more the available sum is the more the choices - and price is based on "perceived value" for the buyer, not on cost of goods and labor alone - ever. Our choices as consumers are never as rational as we think they are.

I bought that 2004 truck last year and fixed up my 2000 Nissan Frontier truck to give to a family that lost their car in the Hurricane Helene floods in NC.
To me it's simply a necessary commodity. And I was fortunate that a friend sold me his 2004 truck (as he had bought a 2006 one) and I was able to make enough money to fix up my Nissan Truck.
At that point in time, I had no idea of why I was fixing up the Nissan truck instead of just selling it.
But then came this opportunity to give it to some people that needed it. The floods in the North Carolina hurricane Helene had totaled their vehicle.
And I had a vehicle that I did not need.
The world sometimes works in mysterious ways.

 

[Jim Taylor]

You narrow it down to negative motivations because they don't fall down under your personal preferences.

My post was a description of two different reasons people interact with luxury goods. These principles are well-known, although there may be others. They have nothing to do with my personal preferences.
I omitted a link on the first point to what I consider a good, simple explanation of the subject. Here it is:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...uy-luxury-brands-and-how-do-they-make-us-feel

The link on the second point is more involved, but (I believe) just as important.

Please do not take this as an attack on you personally. It is not. In fact, it is not an attack at all. These are simply expressions of psychological principles ... nothing more and nothing less.

 

[pablolie]

...

Please do not take this as an attack on you personally. It is not. In fact, it is not an attack at all. These are simply expressions of psychological principles ... nothing more and nothing less.

Never did, because it does in no way apply to me or the way I think or live.

 

[JeffS7444]

High-end audio isn't "All about the music" and never was. For folks like Stereophile, the annual equipment buyer's guide is a very big deal, but if they've ever published an annual music-review special, I've never seen it. Even if a person isn't planning to make an immediate purchase, they may want reassurance as to their place in the audiophile firmament, and they may become concerned if their favorites are dropped from the listings.

There can be advantages to being associated with luxury/high-end goods: For example, a recent NYT or WSJ article suggested that they can help to forge personal connections which might otherwise be hard to establish, or gain access to privileges if one appears to be "a member of the club". Provided, the article advised, that you seem authentic!

Some of my better luxury buys have been things that get used a lot, such as pots and pans, bedding and bath soap. I was amused to discover that there is a modest secondary market for empty Aesop bottles. I photograph a lot too, but Leica is no longer a go-to brand for me.

 

[mhardy6647]

speaking of bedfellows -- your basic $56k (USD) mattress.

Beds - Adjustable, Continental & Frame Beds | Hästens

Hästens beds are handcrafted from natural materials so you can sleep better. Supportive, comfortable and breathable.

hastens.com

Apparently they really are the sine qua non, per the NYT's "Wirecutter".

The Hästens 2000T, currently going for $55,780 for a king, has long been my white whale—something I’d wanted to try since I started testing mattresses for Wirecutter. Over the past two-and-a-half years I’ve had this job, I’ve tried nearly 100 mattresses that have ranged from $300 to $10,000. Memory foam, hybrids, innersprings—I’ve slept on everything. While I’ve found wonderful options across the spectrum, I hate to say it: None have compared to the 2000T.

I Wish This $56,000 Mattress Weren’t So Incredible.

Our mattress expert spent six months sleeping on a mattress that costs nearly $56,000. The experience made her wonder: How much is our sleep worth?

www.nytimes.com

Apparently the NYT doesn't bother to edit or proofread their published content any more -- my brain sloshed around violently when I saw "None have" in the snippet quoted above! It should of course, read None has...

Full disclosure, we bought a new mattress a year or so back based on rave reviews from Wirecutter. It cost something like 30-fold less than the one above, though.

EDIT: PS I am sure there'a at least a $10k premium for that umlaut in the company name!
On the other hand, IKEA must have a mattress called Søft or Bėd or Flüffi or something like that.

 

[EJ3]

speaking of bedfellows -- your basic $56k (USD) mattress.

Beds - Adjustable, Continental & Frame Beds | Hästens

Hästens beds are handcrafted from natural materials so you can sleep better. Supportive, comfortable and breathable.

hastens.com

Apparently they really are the sine qua non, per the NYT's "Wirecutter".

I Wish This $56,000 Mattress Weren’t So Incredible.

Our mattress expert spent six months sleeping on a mattress that costs nearly $56,000. The experience made her wonder: How much is our sleep worth?

www.nytimes.com

Apparently the NYT doesn't bother to edit or proofread their published content any more -- my brain sloshed around violently when I saw "None have" in the snippet quoted above! It should of course, read None has...

Full disclosure, we bought a new mattress a year or so back based on rave reviews from Wirecutter. It cost something like 30-fold less than the one above, though.

EDIT: PS I am sure there'a at least a $10k premium for that umlaut in the company name!
On the other hand, IKEA must have a mattress called Søft or Bėd or Flüffi or something like that.

So beds are now copying audio voodoo?
(Yeah, I know, for the very wealthy, it's been happening a long, long time). It's just moving down into the mass market now.
The "Luxury Goods" mentality has been being successfully pushed down to the masses to try to relieve us of what money we have.

 

[dedobot]

If tomorrow I wake up multi millionaire I will buy two things right away - Patek minute repeater(300к) and pair of MEG RL801K (25k) !

 

[Thomas Savage]

There's nothing more grotesque than when humans lose all perspective of value ..

It can be funny and teach a lesson like when I order a vodka in quite expensive champagne on my holidays .. its a joke , to me anyway .

There's a classic British sensibility, a heritage and tradition many try to own by simply buying audio product's they think mean something , why i don't know .. why dose Iran still think the British are still relevant and behind all things ..

That's just the nature of the beast but imo it's British culture that's being purchased or trying to be . Purchased owned and destroyed, why not , the boot being on the other foot is refreshing sometimes.

When some buy audio goods it's just like when some buy expensive Scottish whisky.. they are trying to buy into something. We all know Irish whisky is better but don't tell them else it will cost more and I will have to wake up sober.

 

[EJ3]

If tomorrow I wake up multi millionaire I will buy two things right away - Patek minute repeater(300к) and pair of MEG RL801K (25k) !

Perhaps a slightly larger house on more land, a $4000 bed/mattress (if that), a different older vehicle (maybe as new as 2017 but probably in the 1979-86 range) than the 2004 truck that I drive, have my current 25 year old audio gear refurbished and a new set of speakers (KEF BLADE 2 META), a better Jon Boat than the one I have.
Those things would set me for life. No need for anything in my life considered luxury for the sake of LUXURY.

 

[mags65]

EDIT: PS I am sure there'a at least a $10k premium for that umlaut in the company name!
On the other hand, IKEA must have a mattress called Søft or Bėd or Flüffi or something like that.

Häst is Swedish for horse - alludes to the original use of horse-hair/mane in their mattresses.