Why are single drivers disliked to such an extent by most in this forum?

[fpitas]

This cannot be generalized. The Lii Audio F15, for example, has no problems playing loud.

When I participated in the Shootout in Paris with my Philips M9710 and didn't win, it was also because I had backed the wrong horse, so to speak. I had assumed that the listening distance would be large and that a lot of rock music would be played. After all, the 9710 can really get into the swing of things. But that wasn't the case, you heard more soft classical, chansons, etc. The smaller full-range drivers had advantages in fine resolution. And so one of these also performed best.

If the driver puts out substantial bass, mother nature demands a price: Doppler distortion. I suppose most fullrange don't put out much bass, but that's hardly a good answer

 

[computer-audiophile]

If the driver puts out substantial bass, mother nature demands a price: Doppler distortion. I suppose most fullrange don't put out much bass, but that's hardly a good answer

In principle, of course, you are right. But there are big differences in the drivers. For example, the Philips 9710 was also used as a bass-midrange driver in Sonab speakers, which I also once had. These were very good hi-fi speakers in their day.

Picture Sonab OA5 without cover:

 

[OldenEars]

i have actually studied sound engineering at university level and back then I remember the lecturer said such a driver does not exist that can do 20-20

that was over 20yrs ago but I doubt the technology has changed... be willing to see if such a driver exists, even if it does it fairly poorly

i assume no crossover would be needed?

Maybe quad el57 count? Never seen them measured. Would be tricky to mail to amir, too

 

[fpitas]

Maybe quad el57 count? Never seen them measured. Would be tricky to mail to amir, too

Electrostats to my knowledge don't do bass very well.

 

[OldenEars]

Electrostats to my knowledge don't do bass very well.

my parent's neighbours had them for years and i never (remember) hearing them. i still want them, probably with a sub

 

[fpitas]

my parent's neighbours had them for years and i never (remember) hearing them. i still want them, probably with a sub

A friend's dad had KLH Model 9s in a specially built listening room. They were nice enough, but really needed a woofer.

 

[OldenEars]

A friend's dad had KLH Model 9s in a specially built listening room. They were nice enough, but really needed a woofer.

Are they like a bookshelf version of the quads?

at a guess i'd say the quads are about same high and maybe 6 or 8 times wider. bigger = more bass

i must admit, for many years i assumed the quads were not speakers but heating radiators to keep the nice big room warm

 

[fpitas]

Are they like a bookshelf version of the quads?

at a guess i'd say the quads are about same high and maybe 6 or 8 times wider. bigger = more bass

The Model 9s are like a room divider: https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/666klh/index.html

 

[DonH56]

Are they like a bookshelf version of the quads?

at a guess i'd say the quads are about same high and maybe 6 or 8 times wider. bigger = more bass

i must admit, for many years i assumed the quads were not speakers but heating radiators to keep the nice big room warm

No. Random internet pictures:

KLH Model 9

Quad 57

 

[Keith_W]

With audio, you gain some and you lose some. With "full range" single drivers the gain is lack of a crossover, which brings the following benefits: (1) you get less insertion loss, which means (2) you can get away with using a lower power amplifier, and (3) you don't have to worry about designing an x-over if you are DIY'ing. Also (4) you get a true point source speaker. But what you lose is frequency response at both extremes, inability to go loud, and high distortion. I would argue that points (1) and (2) are irrelevant given that powerful amplifiers are inexpensive and the downsides outweigh the benefits. However, there is a certain type of audiophile that likes the sound of low powered tubes. I can understand the attraction, even though it's not for me.

They DO do well with certain types of music though, mostly vocals and simple ensembles - you know, typical audiophile fluff that is not challenging to reproduce and where the recordings lack treble and bass extension anyway. So if your music preference is restricted like this, and you don't listen very loud, and you want a simple project to DIY, then a "full range" driver might be a good choice. But outside this narrow application, I do not think they have a role.

 

[fpitas]

I'm all for point source. I just choose to do it the 2023 way instead of the 1933 way

 

[OldenEars]

No. Random internet pictures:

KLH Model 9

Quad 57

the neighbours' have a copper grill rather than this dark colour and seem much larger. might have to ask if i can pop in and have another look see

 

[fpitas]

the neighbours' have a copper grill rather than this dark colour and seem much larger. might have to ask if i can pop in and have another look see

Perhaps they made another model? They look about like this article: https://www.soundandvision.com/content/quad-esl-57-original-electrostatic-speaker

 

[DonH56]

the neighbours' have a copper grill rather than this dark colour and seem much larger. might have to ask if i can pop in and have another look see

IIRC grill color varied some but not size, at least not through the 57 model's run. I certainly never remember them being much larger/taller until later models. Maybe they have one of the newer models instead?

 

[OldenEars]

IIRC grill color varied some but not size, at least not through the 57 model's run. I certainly never remember them being much larger/taller until later models. Maybe they have one of the newer models instead?

Possibly, im going to arrange a look see hopefully. last time i saw them i was shorter and lived near the water, so they might have looked huge to me way back then

 

[OldenEars]

Perhaps they made another model? They look about like this article: https://www.soundandvision.com/content/quad-esl-57-original-electrostatic-speaker

they do look very similar, ill go and try to arrange some visiting rights

 

[Blumlein 88]

the neighbours' have a copper grill rather than this dark colour and seem much larger. might have to ask if i can pop in and have another look see

I want to know more about the two roosters on the rug, and why drink Michelob Ultra with such fine gear? Unless this is Lance Armstrong's system pictured.

I had copper ESL57s and consider it the prettiest of them. But all are the same size.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I had copper ESL57s and consider it the prettiest of them.

I had the Braun LE1 in the design of Prof. Dieter Rams which is a ESL57 in disguise. This famous German designer is one of my heroes. I was very happy to be able to say him this in person, when I had met him.

In the long term, however, I did not get along with them, they are very critical in terms of positioning. Somewhere I should still have a photo of it in our apartment in an old backup, but I can not find it at the moment.

Besides, I miss the full body of the sound. To connect a subwoofer elegantly with it is very difficult, and I don't like it either. A friend of mine has such a system with 2 x double quad panels + 2 x subwoofer. Not my cup of tea.

I show a picture of the LE1 from the web as a substitute.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I had the Braun LE1 in the design of Prof. Dieter Rams which is a ESL57 in disguise. This famous German designer is one of my heroes. I was very happy to be able to say him this in person, when I had met him.

In the long term, however, I did not get along with them, they are very critical in terms of positioning. Somewhere I should still have a photo of it in our apartment in an old backup, but I can not find it at the moment.

Besides, I miss the full body of the sound. To connect a subwoofer elegantly with it is very difficult, and I don't like it either. A friend of mine has such a system with 2 x double quad panels + 2 x subwoofer. Not my cup of tea.

I show a picture of the LE1 from the web as a substitute.

I had ESL 63s much longer than ESL 57s. They had their shortcomings, but ESL57s in so many ways were something no other speaker could match in some important ways during its years of manufacture.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I had ESL 63s much longer than ESL 57s. They had their shortcomings, but ESL57s in so many ways were something no other speaker could match in some important ways during its years of manufacture.

Electrostats have always fascinated me because of their construction principle.