HDMI to digital active speakers. Why is this so hard?

[edechamps]

I'm currently designing a new home cinema/hifi system for my living room.

On one end: an LG OLED TV with an HDMI eARC port. (I'm hoping the TV can always output LPCM to avoid format compatibility issues down the chain, not sure how well that assumption holds…)

On the other end: a set of what will likely be Genelec SAM monitors, possibly 8341. 5.1 multichannel setup.

Interconnecting consumer AV equipment and active monitors has always been a bit of a nightmare, especially in multichannel. Nevertheless, I can't believe that it's 2025 and there is still no clear, cheap, straightforward, hassle-free to connect these two things.

Genelec SAM monitors have AES/EBU digital inputs, so it's at least theoretically possible to keep the signal digital all the way to the speaker itself. I say "theoretically", because converting HDMI to 5.1 multichannel AES/EBU signal pairs seems much, much harder than it should be. Almost all products output a single S/PDIF stream which is not good enough as S/PDIF can't carry LPCM 5.1.

I am taking suggestions. This is what my research turned up so far:

• Audiopraise VanityPro: ticks all the boxes, but expensive - especially given it's just a basic converter, nothing else - and hard to source (looks like I would have to import it to the UK). Unclear how well it works day to day in practice.
• Some incredibly obscure chinese "HDMI to 4AES" device. Only available on AliExpress, docs are in chinese, unclear if it works with ARC, need to build your own cable to go from the DB25 pinout to XLR, sounds fun! (Not really)
• Trinnov Altitude 32, Storm Audio ISP Evo: the price tag on these things is utterly bonkers (£15k+). It would cost more than all the speakers combined!
• I've seen some people describe some unclear arrangement involving Meridian hardware, something to do with their SpeakerLink format, but couldn't quite figure out exactly what they were doing.

One thing to keep in mind is I absolutely need this to work with ARC. There is no way I'm inserting a device in the middle of the chain - these tend to cause all kinds of issues with HDMI handshaking, future-proofing given increasing HDMI bandwidths/capabilities, etc. my friends have been bitten too many times for me to even consider this. Not to mention this won't work when the TV itself is playing content. There is this weird product that can apparently make any HDMI input ARC-compatible, but I'd prefer to avoid such schenanigans if I can avoid it.

If no-one has any better ideas I'll probably just give up, slap a MiniDSP Flex HTx on it, accept the pointless additional A/D-D/A conversion that this would involve, and have fun troubleshooting ground loops and other EMI noise issues. Sigh. (By the way, is there a cheaper product that also does HDMI to balanced analog out?)

 

[JamesYeomans]

I use one of these in a Windows PC. Not cheap, but has been rock solid reliable: https://www.rme-usa.com/hdspe-aes.html

 

[JamesYeomans]

I can’t comment on using a TV as a source in this type of set up though, as have not tried that. Good luck

 

[kemmler3D]

I think the problem is that HDMI and most multichannel formats are copy protected and/or proprietary, so implementing them in cheap gear is a nonstarter, and I suspect discrete digital outs in non-proprietary formats are contractually prohibited. Why else would it be so hard to find a receiver with 5+ TOSLINK outputs?

I think your most realistic budget option is to find a secondhand, reasonably priced AVR and take the hit on SNR by using the analog pre-outs.

 

[edechamps]

So… I just realized that a digital setup would be even more complicated than I thought, because bass management would be a problem: Genelec 7300 series subwoofers can't do bass management with digital signals as they only have 1 digital input channel. According to the Genelec GLM manual the only way to do digital bass management with 7300 series subwoofers is to use their dedicated bass management device, the 9301B. Which costs… £850. And of course that would come on top of the £1500 for the Audiopraise VanityPro. Yeah, nope.

Analog path with the MiniDSP Flex HTx it is then.

 

[darth]

Some discussion here

Possible solution for DTS/Dolby/Atmos+eARC+HDCP to AES/EBU via Dante? (for Okta 8 etc)

My initial thoughts on this box were positive. However it really should have CEC master volume control so the connected HDMI source can control the master volume from its remote. But it doesn’t. What I’m looking forward to much more is the digital only AudioControl Hyperion DPR-16 AVP. It will...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[MCH]

DTS 5.1 is relatively easy with a decoder from AliExpress, you don't even need eARC. For digital you need to solder though:

Post in thread 'Insights into aliexpress DTS decoders, with some measurements' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ers-with-some-measurements.58932/post-2154215

 

[BestGreed]

If you want an AV digital active system and Genelec SAM series together and use GLM to manage them, then there are not many options, because currently Genelec SAM directly supports only AES3 digital interface, but consumer decoding devices that include this interface are usually very expensive. However, thanks to JBL, we have a more affordable option, such as SDR35 supporting Dnate, and Genelec also provides Dante to AES3 interface conversion device (Genelec 9401A), which makes it possible to build a relatively affordable all digital system. And if you don't have any special preferences for real Genelec, The Neumann KH DSP series also offers AES67 interface speakers, but the models that offer this specification do not have particularly large sizes. At the same time, JBL's equipment supports Dirac Live+BC, so you don't have to worry about GLM's multi-channel bass management.

 

[Tre2023]

I'm currently designing a new home cinema/hifi system for my living room.

On one end: an LG OLED TV with an HDMI eARC port. (I'm hoping the TV can always output LPCM to avoid format compatibility issues down the chain, not sure how well that assumption holds…)

On the other end: a set of what will likely be Genelec SAM monitors, possibly 8341. 5.1 multichannel setup.

Interconnecting consumer AV equipment and active monitors has always been a bit of a nightmare, especially in multichannel. Nevertheless, I can't believe that it's 2025 and there is still no clear, cheap, straightforward, hassle-free to connect these two things.

Genelec SAM monitors have AES/EBU digital inputs, so it's at least theoretically possible to keep the signal digital all the way to the speaker itself. I say "theoretically", because converting HDMI to 5.1 multichannel AES/EBU signal pairs seems much, much harder than it should be. Almost all products output a single S/PDIF stream which is not good enough as S/PDIF can't carry LPCM 5.1.

I am taking suggestions. This is what my research turned up so far:

• Audiopraise VanityPro: ticks all the boxes, but expensive - especially given it's just a basic converter, nothing else - and hard to source (looks like I would have to import it to the UK). Unclear how well it works day to day in practice.
• Some incredibly obscure chinese "HDMI to 4AES" device. Only available on AliExpress, docs are in chinese, unclear if it works with ARC, need to build your own cable to go from the DB25 pinout to XLR, sounds fun! (Not really)
• Trinnov Altitude 32, Storm Audio ISP Evo: the price tag on these things is utterly bonkers (£15k+). It would cost more than all the speakers combined!
• I've seen some people describe some unclear arrangement involving Meridian hardware, something to do with their SpeakerLink format, but couldn't quite figure out exactly what they were doing.

One thing to keep in mind is I absolutely need this to work with ARC. There is no way I'm inserting a device in the middle of the chain - these tend to cause all kinds of issues with HDMI handshaking, future-proofing given increasing HDMI bandwidths/capabilities, etc. my friends have been bitten too many times for me to even consider this. Not to mention this won't work when the TV itself is playing content. There is this weird product that can apparently make any HDMI input ARC-compatible, but I'd prefer to avoid such schenanigans if I can avoid it.

If no-one has any better ideas I'll probably just give up, slap a MiniDSP Flex HTx on it, accept the pointless additional A/D-D/A conversion that this would involve, and have fun troubleshooting ground loops and other EMI noise issues. Sigh. (By the way, is there a cheaper product that also does HDMI to balanced analog out?)

The LG OLED TV will not output multichannel LPCM when Digital Sound Out is set to PCM. All signals will be down mixed to PCM 2.0 for output and will then need to be up mixed at the receiving end.

The MiniDSP Flex HTx only accepts PCM signals. So, it would have to up mix the two channel signals being output from the TV.

You need to be able to bitstream a multichannel Dolby bitstream from the TV for processing at the receiving end if you want multichannel signals output using only the TV tuner and apps.

It is not cheap, but the Marantz AV10 comes to mind. It can decode Dolby bitstreams from the TV’s tuner and apps when the TV’s Digital Sound Out is set to Passthrough and would connect to the Genelec monitors’ analog ports. There is no way to keep the signal digital to the monitors here.

Now, if you are open to an external device connected directly to the TV, there are a few that can output multichannel LPCM like the Apple TV 4K. The TV will be able to pass the multichannel LPCM signal from the device over eARC to a connected processor when the TV’s Digital Sound Out is set to Passthrough. This will work with the MiniDSP Flex HTx connected to the monitors using the analog ports.

 

[Biblob]

Analog path with the MiniDSP Flex HTx it is then.

Be aware though:

 

[darth]

Analog path with the MiniDSP Flex HTx it is then.

I also settled for this for the time being since I use an apple tv. Let's see what the new audio control devices bring in few months and hopefully we will also see the arvus device finally come out of their beta stage or whatever they are stuck in.

 

[Bwmr]

I've seen some people describe some unclear arrangement involving Meridian hardware, something to do with their SpeakerLink format, but couldn't quite figure out exactly what they were doing.

Nothing "special" to do actually:
1) Buy a Meridian "HD621 HDMI Audio Processor" (it looks and feels very solidly built, so I did not mind getting it used).
2) Buy a passive cable connector to connect to your DAC, such as this https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B076QK6TWH?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1
3) Connect everything and that's it. You might want to read the Meridian HD621 manual thoroughly for your use case. There is an app to download for setup. I do not use eARC so can not confirm that case.

 

[Audioworks]

I'm not a surround sound guy, so I may be misunderstanding your requirements, but Wiim recently announced that they were beta testing 5.1 support.

Setting Up a WiiM Dolby 5.1 Surround Sound System

The WiiM Amp Pro and WiiM Ultra support Dolby Digital Audio, making them perfect for building a 5.1 surround sound system. A 5.1 system creates an immersive audio experience by delivering sound from multiple directions. This setup is ideal f...

faq.wiimhome.com

 

[edechamps]

The LG OLED TV will not output multichannel LPCM when Digital Sound Out is set to PCM. All signals will be down mixed to PCM 2.0 for output and will then need to be up mixed at the receiving end.

Yes, this is what I was afraid of. It's really silly that the TV's built-in apps are unable to decode Dolby/DTS, but oh well…

It is not cheap, but the Marantz AV10 comes to mind

Yeah something like that would tick all the boxes and would also solve the Dolby/DTS decoding problem, but it costs £6k. A miniDSP Flex HTx, combined with an external source capable of decoding to PCM 5.1 (e.g. Apple TV), is almost 7 times cheaper! And I wouldn't be surprised if the miniDSP had more powerful EQ/signal processing capabilities than the Marantz AV10.

Now, if you are open to an external device connected directly to the TV, there are a few that can output multichannel LPCM like the Apple TV 4K. The TV will be able to pass the multichannel LPCM signal from the device over eARC to a connected processor when the TV’s Digital Sound Out is set to Passthrough. This will work with the MiniDSP Flex HTx connected to the monitors using the analog ports.

Yeah, this is what I will most likely end up doing. Probably not an Apple TV though, as I'm not an Apple guy. My research surfaced these potential alternatives: Roku, Fire stick, Google TV, Nvidia Shield. I think most of them are capable of decoding Dolby/DTS to LPCM 5.1. I would welcome testimonies on any of these.

 

[masterhw]

My research surfaced these potential alternatives: Roku, Fire stick, Google TV, Nvidia Shield. I think most of them are capable of decoding Dolby/DTS to LPCM 5.1. I would welcome testimonies on any of these.

Of those, some can decode to LPCM and some support lossless codecs (Dolby TrueHD/DTS HD MA), but none both. Actually maybe only the Shield can, someone please correct if I'm wrong on that.

I think what you want is something that not only supports BluRay audio codecs but can also decode/output them as LPCM. The only devices I know that can do this (while preserving compatibility with major streaming services) are the Homatics Box R 4K Plus family. This family is going through a seemingly painful upgrade to AndroidTV 14, but I think on the non-beta software is still very usable.

 

[Tre2023]

Yes, this is what I was afraid of. It's really silly that the TV's built-in apps are unable to decode Dolby/DTS, but oh well…



Yeah something like that would tick all the boxes and would also solve the Dolby/DTS decoding problem, but it costs £6k. A miniDSP Flex HTx, combined with an external source capable of decoding to PCM 5.1 (e.g. Apple TV), is almost 7 times cheaper! And I wouldn't be surprised if the miniDSP had more powerful EQ/signal processing capabilities than the Marantz AV10.



Yeah, this is what I will most likely end up doing. Probably not an Apple TV though, as I'm not an Apple guy. My research surfaced these potential alternatives: Roku, Fire stick, Google TV, Nvidia Shield. I think most of them are capable of decoding Dolby/DTS to LPCM 5.1. I would welcome testimonies on any of these.

None of those devices other than the Apple TV 4K can decode Dolby signals and output them as multichannel PCM. As well as an LG C1 TV, I also have an Amazon Fire Cube Gen 3, Apple TV 4K Gen 1, Nvidia Shield TV Pro 2019 and Roku Ultra 4800X.

If you are going to use the Flex, the Apple TV 4K is the device to get if you want multichannel PCM to make its way to the Flex through the TV using eARC.

 

[edechamps]

None of those devices other than the Apple TV 4K can decode Dolby signals and output them as multichannel PCM. As well as an LG C1 TV, I also have an Amazon Fire Cube Gen 3, Apple TV 4K Gen 1, Nvidia Shield TV Pro 2019 and Roku Ultra 4800X. If you are going to use the Flex, the Apple TV 4K is the device to get if you want multichannel PCM to make its way to the Flex through the TV using eARC.

Thanks, this is useful information. It looks like all the success stories decoding content to multichannel PCM are from Apple TV users. The thing is, I am not an Apple person - all my other devices are Android and Windows. I could make an exception here but I'm worried about how usable the Apple TV will be when I don't have any Apple device to interact with it. Apple is not exactly known for integrating well with other ecosystems.

There are two other potential leads:

• I found somewhat confusing/conflicting information about whether the Google TV Streamer 4K can decode to multichannel PCM.
• I could use some Android TV based device (e.g. the Shield) with a third-party app that is capable of decoding to multichannel PCM. For example I suspect (but am not 100% sure) that Nova can do it, given it is based on ffmpeg which can definitely decode TrueHD/DTS-HD MA to multichannel PCM.

It is sadly quite difficult to find clear answers to these questions.

 

[darth]

Fwiw, I am an android user primarily (phone + Google home) but also use Apple TV. Not a big deal. I do use a MacBook and iPad but also a PC. Apple TV just works fine (and frankly better). So unless you want verbal Google home commands to turn things off or on or change volume, you shouldn't worry too much.

 

[chelgrian]

Thanks, this is useful information. It looks like all the success stories decoding content to multichannel PCM are from Apple TV users. The thing is, I am not an Apple person - all my other devices are Android and Windows. I could make an exception here but I'm worried about how usable the Apple TV will be when I don't have any Apple device to interact with it. Apple is not exactly known for integrating well with other ecosystems.

There are two other potential leads:

• I found somewhat confusing/conflicting information about whether the Google TV Streamer 4K can decode to multichannel PCM.
• I could use some Android TV based device (e.g. the Shield) with a third-party app that is capable of decoding to multichannel PCM. For example I suspect (but am not 100% sure) that Nova can do it, given it is based on ffmpeg which can definitely decode TrueHD/DTS-HD MA to multichannel PCM.

It is sadly quite difficult to find clear answers to these questions.

The reason the Apple TV can do it is that Apple design their own hardware and write their own software.

Almost all the other streamers, ones that have that have official apps at least, will have one of these

Dolby Multistream Decoder MS12

The Dolby MS12 Multistream Decoder provides TV and set-top box manufacturers with a single-package solution for decoding all premium broadcast audio formats.

professional.dolby.com

in them.

This only outputs Dolby formats so either you get MAT or Dolby Digital Plus over HDMI but never LPCM8 as it would not be in Dolby’s interest to allow that.

Obviously devices doing everything in software can do better but they tend to be things like Kodi on an rPI5 and not have official apps for streaming services.

 

[chelgrian]

I'm currently designing a new home cinema/hifi system for my living room.

On one end: an LG OLED TV with an HDMI eARC port. (I'm hoping the TV can always output LPCM to avoid format compatibility issues down the chain, not sure how well that assumption holds…)

On the other end: a set of what will likely be Genelec SAM monitors, possibly 8341. 5.1 multichannel setup.

Interconnecting consumer AV equipment and active monitors has always been a bit of a nightmare, especially in multichannel. Nevertheless, I can't believe that it's 2025 and there is still no clear, cheap, straightforward, hassle-free to connect these two things.

Genelec SAM monitors have AES/EBU digital inputs, so it's at least theoretically possible to keep the signal digital all the way to the speaker itself. I say "theoretically", because converting HDMI to 5.1 multichannel AES/EBU signal pairs seems much, much harder than it should be. Almost all products output a single S/PDIF stream which is not good enough as S/PDIF can't carry LPCM 5.1.

I am taking suggestions. This is what my research turned up so far:

• Audiopraise VanityPro: ticks all the boxes, but expensive - especially given it's just a basic converter, nothing else - and hard to source (looks like I would have to import it to the UK). Unclear how well it works day to day in practice.
• Some incredibly obscure chinese "HDMI to 4AES" device. Only available on AliExpress, docs are in chinese, unclear if it works with ARC, need to build your own cable to go from the DB25 pinout to XLR, sounds fun! (Not really)
• Trinnov Altitude 32, Storm Audio ISP Evo: the price tag on these things is utterly bonkers (£15k+). It would cost more than all the speakers combined!
• I've seen some people describe some unclear arrangement involving Meridian hardware, something to do with their SpeakerLink format, but couldn't quite figure out exactly what they were doing.

One thing to keep in mind is I absolutely need this to work with ARC. There is no way I'm inserting a device in the middle of the chain - these tend to cause all kinds of issues with HDMI handshaking, future-proofing given increasing HDMI bandwidths/capabilities, etc. my friends have been bitten too many times for me to even consider this. Not to mention this won't work when the TV itself is playing content. There is this weird product that can apparently make any HDMI input ARC-compatible, but I'd prefer to avoid such schenanigans if I can avoid it.

If no-one has any better ideas I'll probably just give up, slap a MiniDSP Flex HTx on it, accept the pointless additional A/D-D/A conversion that this would involve, and have fun troubleshooting ground loops and other EMI noise issues. Sigh. (By the way, is there a cheaper product that also does HDMI to balanced analog out?)

The correct way to do this is to go from eARC to Dante or AES67 then in to a Genelec 9401A and thence in to the SAM system over AES. This will allow you to do bass management and room correction entirely in the Genelec world using GLM.

There was supposed to be the Arvus H1-D to just go from eARC to Dante but it’s MIA.

However

SW42DA

4-Way HDMI Switcher with Multi-Channel Dante Audio Breakout

www.blustream.co.uk

does actually exists, is cheaper than the last advertised price for the Arvus and will get you from any reasonable format on eARC to a variety of formats between 5.1 and either 7.1.2 or 5.1.4 over Dante. Obviously it does a bunch of stuff you don’t need as well.