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Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary speaker review & measurements by Erin's Audio Corner
- Thread starter thewas
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lol wtfI bought a pair with stands for 650€!
Sadly i have to get them myself and it's 800km there and back. The cost in fuel should be 50 or 60€, so the price will be 700€ in the end. Another slight con is they have the nut tree veneer, not the nice red mahogany.
They will be listed for sale as soon as i have them, i don't think i will keep them.
I will collect them in two days with my car. They come in the original packaging, so i have to get creative.
I still don't follow. Sounds like you're trying to flip something for a profit, and you thought you would post it here? Or am I wrong?
Some people like that kind of thing , it’s an opportunity to listen to the product. You get a great deal and know you sell it for the same or higher and just keep it a short time , just like some hobbyist car flipping.
I think it’s to much of a hassle I would not bother.
B2B I can deal with professionaly , I’ve procrastinated for years selling my current hifi because “ audiophiles “
I think it’s to much of a hassle I would not bother.
B2B I can deal with professionaly , I’ve procrastinated for years selling my current hifi because “ audiophiles “
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cavedriver
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Because i like to talk about my speakers. And if i get Lintons, i would like to do it here. Usually i follow up with a bunch of detail pictures and other information some may find interesting, sometimes i open them up, sometimes i look at the original packaging, sometimes i talk about how they compare to other things. I attached a few of the speakers i got in recent times and sold after a few weeks.
I usually am happy if i get my money back.
If i wanted to make a profit i would have to add 20% sales tax and my profit, say 10%. I would have to sell them for 910€ minimum and that is almost what they cost at Amazon. Not to mention the taxwork, warranty and all that.
Not worth it, it's a hobby, not a business.
I'm still looking for a pair of used R3, hopefully i get them while i have the Lintons to compare them directly, but nothing came up so far.
Technically they seem like the perfect speakers to me. In terms of optics, the Lintons are hard to beat, they are well designed.
Attachments
I did a side by side comparison. You find IT here
Thread 'Kef r3 vs Wharfdale Linton 85 (My comparison)'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...3-vs-wharfdale-linton-85-my-comparison.39854/
I "liked" that thread a long time ago
He really is the master of smooth talk. I like his reviews, because he mentions interesting music left and right. However, after talking 10 minutes about the sound of the speakers i might be left more confused than illuminated.
Not sure i agree with him recommending 80€ amplifiers from China for the Lintons because "the amps sound bright and the speakers don't". Usually the amps sound bright and thin because their frequency response is load dependent, and while the Lintons are by no means a complex load compared to some other speakers, they are complex enough so that you really can't predict what the FR is in the end, at least with those ultra cheap amps.
I have an Aiyima 07, a Yamaha A-S301 and A-S1200, i'm curious if i can tell the difference.
No one is twisting your arm to look at the review if you don't like it - especially whole 20 minutes of it.
Why are you self punishing yourself ?
EDIT: Now when i think of it, what more proof do you want/need ? Erin did a full set of measurements for Linton 85 long time ago which you can find in the post No.1 of the thread. Lintons are ubiquitous, new or used in Europe, America and Asia - so majority can go and have a listen for themselves. I own Linton 85 and formed my opinion about the sound of those in my room. It is very interesting to me when i have full set of measurements to read or listen to other people how do they perceive what is measured. Especially Darko since he is known for employing DIRAC when available and has listening space treated better than most guys here, outside of their studios and most of other reviewers. And i don't listen what he says because i am thirsty for knowledge. It's mostly for fun - at least for me.
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cavedriver
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I already own a pair of Linton's so I'm familiar with their strengths and weaknesses. They are reasonably good speakers and the cheapest I've been happy enough to keep until I decide on something better for the room they are in. But don't be surprised if you share a "review" on a speaker on ASR and there's no data or measurements, when someone else on ASR responds to remind the audience here that that "review" is a waste of time. I mean, it is kind of the point of advocating for measurable and testable qualification of audio equipment, isn't it? Of course, you could have prefaced the link with a comment like, "for your entertainmentNo one is twisting your arm to look at the review if you don't like it - especially whole 20 minutes of it.
Why are you self punishing yourself ?
EDIT: Now when i think of it, what more proof do you want/need ? Erin did a full set of measurements for Linton 85 long time ago which you can find in the post No.1 of the thread. Lintons are ubiquitous, new or used in Europe, America and Asia - so majority can go and have a listen for themselves. I own Linton 85 and formed my opinion about the sound of those in my room. It is very interesting to me when i have full set of measurements to read or listen to other people how do they perceive what is measured. Especially Darko since he is known for employing DIRAC when available and has listening space treated better than most guys here, outside of their studios and most of other reviewers. And i don't listen what he says because i am thirsty for knowledge. It's mostly for fun - at least for me.
" or something like that, but I hope the majority of readers here already know what this site is about. Note, though, that he spews a lot of BS in that review, like the previously pointed out comment about the cheap amps (which I hope he made as a sort of tongue-in-cheek joke), or that he thinks they roll off at high frequencies (they do but not until ~17k and if he can still hear that high at his age then kudos to him), or that the cabinets are 3-layered construction (you can see in Erin's review that the front baffles at least are monolithic mdf), or that they are full range enough that you don't need to think about a sub if you're room is small enough (yes, room reinforcement can extend their usable bass extension a bit, and they are better than many other speakers in this price range, but they are not "full range" or "no sub" speakers no matter how small the room is). So if he only stated facts then no rebuttal would be necessary, but instead he belabors his opinions with a bunch of misinformation just like so many other youtubers, audio dealers, and other such people in the industry that just drag it down and waste time.
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I'm sorry, but i still don't understand what you mean. There are measurements and all the data in the first post of the thread. Or are you implying that Darko should do some measurements Erin didn't do or forgot to do ? What Erin shared is more than enough to draw valid conclusions about engineering of this loudspeaker, right ?
To quote what John actually said: "I wouldn't put necessarily a subwoofer with either loudspeaker, but i would be less likely to add one to the Linton than the Monitor Audio."
He never said it was "full range" or "no sub" speaker. The guy just said what HE would likely do.
I guess i'm not so rigid in my views on how one should express his subjective impressions of a loudspeaker and it's sound. My impression of Linton's matches his quite a bit (easygoing, laid back sounding, weighty low end, not so detailed sounding). About high freq roll off - that also was my first impression of Lintons and i was mighty surprised when i saw Erin's measurements that don't show that. Then i opened one of tweeters and saw there was ferrofluid inside (as i presumed there would be) which saves the tweeter from dying when playing very loud, but at low volumes it absorbs some of the fine details in top end.
I do agree he spilled some BS about cheap amplifiers. I've tried and owned TPA3116 Breeze audio and IcePower 125asx2 and they never sounded bright if the speakers weren't bright - but even he said it was generalization. Oh and none of the two small amps was a good match for Wharfedale Linton, despite what he said
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cavedriver
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Yes, I literally mean it's a waste of time and space to share his review when he doesn't include any measurements. He could at least measure the speakers in his space and attempt to correlate some of his insanely fluffy comments with actual measured behavior. For example, he suggests that the Linton is for people that like to be "engulfed with sound". Wtf? So only people that are sonoagoraphobic should listen to the Linton? Or his one where he recommends listening to the speaker with the grills off, which is clearly shown in Erin's measurements to make the speaker sound worse and yet Darko suggests that "even with their grills off, what these speakers lack in laser-guided precision and resolution they more than makes up for in a very easygoing listening nature". Why advocate for reducing the performance of a speaker and then justify it by saying it doesn't hurt their performance because their performance (in some other way) isn't all that good in the first place? It just insults the audience. There are plenty more insultingly dumb nuggets like this, but it makes my point- when you try to describe speaker performance without using terms that related back to specific measurable behavior it quickly becomes BS.
It's very much like being a good fortune teller. Everything he says sounds reasonable, and it's easy for someone to listen along and be nodding their head and be thinking, yeah, I agree with that, yeah, that's what they sound like to me, but has he really told you anything you didn't already know? No. Has he gone so far as to tell un-truths and actually mislead the audience? Yes. And for that his content and the numerous other examples of youtube fluffery should be ignored.
I got the speakers and stands. I didn't de-tetris them from the car today, as i was shattered, but i'll deliver pictures tomorrow. As you can imagine, the car was very, very full.
The dude that sold them was basically the antithesis of me: valve amp, record player looked like a chromed oil rig, the system in it costs more than a Yamaha A-S1200, blessed cables, esoteric phono preamp. But really a nice guy and i have to say, the tunes emanating from his gear where kind of sublime.
Maybe, just maybe, i should look into valve amps.
Can't wait to listen to the Lintons!
I also listened to a Darko Audio podcast with the guy that designed the Linton 85th, as well as the Denton 80th, the Dovedale and the Mission 770.
Forgot the name of the chap, but this guy knew what he was talking about without sounding condescending to the host of the podcast!
Highly recommended! Sadly i don't know the name or number of the podcast, i think it had speaker size or something like it in the title.
He said he did in one of his podcasts i listened in the car today, but when he presented his measurements his viewers complained they where bored by it. They wrote they are more interested in his personal opinion.
Peter Comeau?
Are you aware of extremely limited audibility of diffraction effect such is that ? It does look worse at that one axis but if you examined Erin's measurements, you can see quite clearly what is net effect of grills off in estimated in-room response curve. There is clear drop in highs (-1dB to -1.5dB) with the grill on between 5kHz and 10kHz which correlates quite well with his conclusions about highs. I don't feel insulted by that and i don't understand if you do.
I disagree with this. Describing loudspeaker performance is seldom possible exclusively through measurable behavior. When it becomes possible, there will be no more need for listening tests - that are performed by every major loudspeaker company during development and before release of product.
I've said that i didn't listen his review to learn something new. It is just fun for me to hear what he, or anyone in this thread who owns or has listened to Lintons, has to say about his/hers personal, subjective perception of quasi-anechoic results showed in the first post. If you find his reviews insulting you definitely shouldn't watch them. I know i wouldn't.
Cheers
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cavedriver
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Yeah, I really don't know how Erin generated that graph given the very large differences with the actual measurement with the grills off. This graph shows the actual measurement, where there is a large (3 dB) drop around 1700 Hz and a large peak (also ~3dB) around 7kHz that somehow disappear in his estimated response. My assumption has been that he made a mistake in generating the in-room estimate for grills off because the two graphs clearly don't correlate. The grill off measurement is also showing some borderline directivity issues which isn't surprising when you look at the way the grill is designed (with it's inner beveled cutout in the grill frame acting as a partial diffuser for the speaker face):Are you aware of extremely limited audibility of diffraction effect such is that ? It does look worse at that one axis but if you examined Erin's measurements, you can see quite clearly what is net effect of grills off in estimated in-room response curve. There is clear drop in highs (-1dB to -1.5dB) with the grill on between 5kHz and 10kHz which correlates quite well with his conclusions about highs. I don't feel insulted by that and i don't understand if you do.
That is the guy, he knows his craft
.Fourth floor, i'm sweating buckets. Hiking backpack for reference.
Hi-fi - the hobby for fitness freaks!That is the guy, he knows his craft
View attachment 292458
Fourth floor, i'm sweating buckets. Hiking backpack for reference.
Yeah, I really don't know how Erin generated that graph given the very large differences with the actual measurement with the grills off. This graph shows the actual measurement, where there is a large (3 dB) drop around 1700 Hz and a large peak (also ~3dB) around 7kHz that somehow disappear in his estimated response. My assumption has been that he made a mistake in generating the in-room estimate for grills off because the two graphs clearly don't correlate. The grill off measurement is also showing some borderline directivity issues which isn't surprising when you look at the way the grill is designed (with it's inner beveled cutout in the grill frame acting as a partial diffuser for the speaker face):
It doesn't necessarily mean he made a mistake. I agree the on axis, ERDI and listening window look like ass. The edge diffraction will often have the greatest effect closest to on axis. Similar to where wave guides show their issues. (See the listening window on revel speakers compared to the in room response) The estimated in room response (EIR) is 44% LW, 44% first reflections and 12% sound power ( or all reflections). The early reflections curve is usually very close to the EIR, and that is what we see here. The DI worsening is more of a result of the LW/on axis being what it is with the grills off.
This makes me think that with the grills off, a more reflective room would be preferable, so that the listening window has a smaller effect on the total response. This does explain why some people don't mind the grills off. I prefer the grills on... But that because i have toddlers
Also, what do you mean by diffusor? It pretty much acts as a waveguide.
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