Turntable advice requested, please!

[skhan007]

Hello Everyone,

I currently own my dad's late 70's Sanyo TP 1005 turntable. I've replaced the cartridge and that is going well, however it plays albums slow. Definitely pitched down. Upon reading up, the belt has likely stretched (no surprise after 40 years!). I ordered a new belt and hope to install it this week.

Questions for you all:

1) Is my current turntable worthy of upgrading further, such as higher-end cartridges (versus the basic $24 one I installed), tone arm, etc.? This is assuming the new belt fixes my slow speed issue.

2) If it's recommended to consider a new/newer turntable, what is recommended in the $500-ish range? I've seen on-line recommendations for U-Turn and Fluance, but curious what else is recommended?

If it helps, I'm currently running the current turntable into the phono-in of my late 80's Technics receiver to use it as a phono stage. The line level out goes to my Linear Tube Audio MZ3 tube amp, into ZMF headphones.

 

[DVDdoug]

1) Is my current turntable worthy of upgrading further, such as higher-end cartridges (versus the basic $24 one I installed),

A better cartridge might improve the frequency response and the tracking but you can tweak frequency response with EQ and if you are playing older records they often had rolled-off highs and you might want to boost the high even with a "perfect" cartridge. You can go "crazy high-end" with a cartridge (or anything vinyl/analog related) but you'll never get "digital quality". I have what was Shure's best cartridge which was about $100 and personally I wouldn't bother with anything more expensive (although you'd have to allow for inflation since the vinyl days.)

If it's recommended to consider a new/newer turntable, what is recommended in the $500-ish range?

If I was buying a new turntable I'd be looking at about that $500 price range for the turntable, cartridge, and preamp. I'd actually try to find a turntable with a built-in preamp and personally, I'd probably get one with USB since I'd only use it for occasionally digitizing records. (Every USB turntable has a preamp, which sometimes can be bypassed.)

I wouldn't go too cheap because sound quality will degrade but I just don't see the point is spending a lot of money that on something can never sound as good as my $70 CD/DVD/Blu-Ray player (or almost any digital source).

 

[sergeauckland]

The Sanyo TP1005 isn't one of the classic Japanese turntables, the construction is lightweight plastic but the arm looks fairly decent. If yours works OK with a new belt, then it's worth a cartridge upgrade, suggest one of the Audio Technica carts with a line contact stylus.

However, a new cartridge wouldn't go to waste with any new turntable. As suggestions, any of the better Technics, Denon or Sony direct drives, or if you fancy something 'vintage' then Garrard, Lenco, Ariston turntables won't disappoint.

Sadly $500 won't get you much new, but used there are lots of possibilities.


S

 

[DSJR]

I believe the motor is electronically controlled. It's common in these older decks for electrolytic caps to go off/dry out with age, so if the belt doesn't sort it, it'd be worth having a look inside the deck at the servo board. belts do stretch and SPARING appl;ication of a good ligght sewing machine type oil may be necessary on motor and main platter bearings to quieten them after many years.

In the meantime, I'll see what I can find out on Vinyl Engine as regards manuals for this model as sanyo wasn't really represented much in the UK at the specialist level. Damn! the service manual can't currently be downloaded due to site maintenance

The deck looks to be an auto-return model. Not that many cheaper auto decks had sensitive-enough auto trip devices and could load the lateral movement of the arm at side end in many examples. VE has a user-comment that the sub-frame mounts can crumble and bearing and motor noise can be an issue.

As for cartridges, the best value for a deck like this is arguably the evergreen AT VM95E which tracks securely at 2g. An improved version of the legendary AT95E which ran and ran and ran..., the VM version does refine the design further and works in almost anything if its predecessor is anything to go by (I successfully used a 95E in Garrard SP25's of various vintages for example as long as they were serviced).

If sentimental value isn't an issue, you can get some ugly, basic but very capable decks for a few hundred bucks/pounds. Being UK based, my first choice is a Rega 1 or 2 (with AT91 based 'Carbon' cartridge, nicely upgradable with Thakker replacement Dual DN251E/Thakker EPO-E elliptical stylus which lifts it basically to AT95E level). US prices of Rega products suffer hugely though, so some of the other decks available including AT's own, may be more suitable perhaps. If you've fitted an AT 3600L cartridge (a universal cheapie over decades), the Thakker replacement I mentioned fits fine - mine has a nicely made and finished diamond too and I can't stress how this can help with surface noise effects which is important on decks like this.



P.S. Many here will regard the following as subjectivist bull***t, but as it was my life for so long, I'll carry on. Siting of decks like this is VITAL if feedback of various types is to be minimised, as the structure isn't that substantial apparently. if you can, I'd get the deck on a light but rigid mount and sited away from the speakers and well away from the transformer side of the amp if near each other. I'd also suggest removing the lid completely when playing, as lids like this act as sound boards if fitted, sometimes even when lid is closed when playing. I firmly believe and accept as fat after decades demming this, that the cartridge is only as 'good' as the playing platform will allow and subtle feedback issues, as well as wow & flutter can detract from the best that good vinyl can offer.

 

[skhan007]

Thank you all for the input, thus far. Yes, the Sanyo tp 1005 has the auto-return function, but it no longer works. Regarding the mechanics, it's as quiet as can be. No noise or anything, but just simply running slow. Musically speaking, everything sounds about 1/2 step to a whole step down. If the belt doesn't solve the issue, then I think I'll likely shop for a replacement turntable vs. servicing the current one.

I appreciate the recommendations for AT and Rega, which both look great. Also, I've read about U-Turn and Fluance.

 

[spiral scratch]

I have the original CEC version of this deck. These have a problem with the motor running slow with age as does mine. A new belt did not correct the problem. I'm planning to service it myself when time allows. There is a nice thread on these on vinylengine and one person did fix it up quite nicely. He replaced the AC servo motor with an adjustable DC motor, but they can also be serviced to run fine, I think it's mostly cleaning the brushes, but it's possible the capacitors have drifted too. One other thing worth checking is if the capstan has dropped due to sag in the motor suspension. That could also alter the speed if the belt is not resting in the correct position. I had a look at mine, but the screw for the capstan is under the top plate, so some disassembly is required.

If it's properly refurbished these will sell for $400 or so, just to give you an idea of how much cash you might want to throw at it. But yeh it was an entry level turntable in it's day, but when refurbished will hold it's own with anything in the $500 new range.

oh yeh, I'm in Canada so that would be $250-$300 USD for that refurbished deck.

 

[mike70]

Yes, the fluance is a decent deck and already comes with a decent cartridge, Ortofon Blue, almost at 500 USD.

https://www.fluance.com/rt85w-reference-high-fidelity-vinyl-turntable-natural-walnut

Talking about sound ... well, many people say that digital is better ... but, in my case, it depends on recording / mastering. I have awful CDs and brilliant records, and the opposite. Only enjoy what you like.

 

[olbobcat]

Thank you all for the input, thus far. Yes, the Sanyo tp 1005 has the auto-return function, but it no longer works. Regarding the mechanics, it's as quiet as can be. No noise or anything, but just simply running slow. Musically speaking, everything sounds about 1/2 step to a whole step down. If the belt doesn't solve the issue, then I think I'll likely shop for a replacement turntable vs. servicing the current one.

I appreciate the recommendations for AT and Rega, which both look great. Also, I've read about U-Turn and Fluance.

You can have bad power supply caps that will cause it to run slowly. There are phone apps that you can install that will tell you the speed you are running.

 

[spiral scratch]

I should have mentioned that belts are not always great in terms of correct sizing. If you are not too worried about the speed being spot on it shouldn't matter too much to get in the 33+/- ballpark. I had good luck with turntableneedle's belts. They have them properly sized for length, width and thickness there.

Also, from my reading it was indicated that the capacitors in this motor design do not have a direct effect on the speed and a good cleaning would be the first place to start to get the speed corrected.

 

[skhan007]

Yes, the fluance is a decent deck and already comes with a decent cartridge, Ortofon Blue, almost at 500 USD.

https://www.fluance.com/rt85w-reference-high-fidelity-vinyl-turntable-natural-walnut

Talking about sound ... well, many people say that digital is better ... but, in my case, it depends on recording / mastering. I have awful CDs and brilliant records, and the opposite. Only enjoy what you like.

Yes, this one is at the top of my list and I'm trying to decide if I should go with it (Fluance RT85) or the UTurn Orbit with the same cartridge, as I could get the built-in phone stage. I know buying an external one with the Fluance won't be a big deal, however. The Fluance also doesn't require me to mess with the belt to change to 45 rpm, so that's a plus.

You can have bad power supply caps that will cause it to run slowly. There are phone apps that you can install that will tell you the speed you are running.

Brilliant- I just found the RPM app, downloaded, and note my Sanyo tp 1005 is at 32.16 RPM. Not great. Swapping in power supply caps should be within my skill set, as I'm handy with a soldering iron. Any links to instructions? I'll try google in the interim.

I should have mentioned that belts are not always great in terms of correct sizing. If you are not too worried about the speed being spot on it shouldn't matter too much to get in the 33+/- ballpark. I had good luck with turntableneedle's belts. They have them properly sized for length, width and thickness there.

Also, from my reading it was indicated that the capacitors in this motor design do not have a direct effect on the speed and a good cleaning would be the first place to start to get the speed corrected.

Sounds good- My new belt should arrive today and if that doesn't get me above 33 RPM, I'll see what can be done in the cleaning department. Any suggestions, links, etc. would be appreciated, as this would be my very first time opening up a turntable.


My limited research, based on the price point I'm comfortable with, leads me to one of the following choices:

1. Music Hall Classic
2. Fluance RT85
3. UTurn Orbit Special or Custom w/ Ortofon 2m Blue

If anybody feels strongly about one of these or something entirely different, please let me know. I'm learning and appreciate any guidance.

Link to the manual for my unit: https://audio-circuit.dk/downloads/sanyo/Sanyo-TP1005-tt-sm.pdf

 

[spiral scratch]

I haven't tackled any servicing on my deck, so I can't provide any first hand info on that. Schematics are available to download at vinylengine. I did not find anything specific to cleaning other than it being mentioned in threads and generally it was in regards to cleaning and lubricating the motor bearings. I think I read about cleaning the motor brushes on a web site for audio restoration. It's a fairly common repair in the electric power tool world.

If you want to try a quick fix, you could run some tape around the rim of the platter where the belt runs to make it slightly larger. That will bump up the speed and might get you where you need to go.

 

[skhan007]

I haven't tackled any servicing on my deck, so I can't provide any first hand info on that. Schematics are available to download at vinylengine. I did not find anything specific to cleaning other than it being mentioned in threads and generally it was in regards to cleaning and lubricating the motor bearings. I think I read about cleaning the motor brushes on a web site for audio restoration. It's a fairly common repair in the electric power tool world.

If you want to try a quick fix, you could run some tape around the rim of the platter where the belt runs to make it slightly larger. That will bump up the speed and might get you where you need to go.

Great news- someone suggested I look at the original service manual and locate some set screws for the motor speed. I found the original 1980 manual and sure enough, there are two set screws for fine-tuning the 33 and 45 RPM speeds respectively. I turned the 33 set screw using a jeweler screwdriver, about 1/16 and now my iPhone app reads exactly 33.33 RPM. Man, am I thrilled. So new belt installed and set screw adjusted and I'm listening to some old vinyl as I type this!!

Now, I think I'll research cartridges!! A rabbit hole, I'm sure.

 

[DSJR]

DO PLEASE BE WARNED

As I said earlier, a better cartidge will be limited by the tonearm and the resonant nature of the deck itself! Vinyl playback depends on miniscule movements of a rock and cantilever system running in a groove in a plastic disc and resonances in the deck structure will definitely affect mid-bass performance as well as altering spatial perspectives in the recording as pressed into the vinyl. The 2M Blue is a fussy beastie at the best of times and the 2M Red as toppy and rough as Grado's are dull and well, dull... Nagaoka's in the UK are silly money bearing ion mind they were good but basically bottom of the barrel when I first heard of them.

Take a look at the German Lowbeats site for Ortofon and AT reviews. There's responses, distortion figures, close ups of some of the diamond profiles and sound bites too (done on a pretty inert top-model Rega platform).

 

[AaronJ]

Having owned a Fluance I feel like it is very good value for the money. I have a RT-82 and I swapped the 10 stylus for a 30. Brought the total to $600, which is $100 more than the RT85 w/ 2M Blue, but the OM30 is a considerably better cart than the 2M Blue. I considered adding the acrylic platter but never did. Now the turntable sits in a second system in my office.

I have had it for 3 years with no issues. I think it sounds excellent in a price-appropriate system. The auto-stop is one of my favorite features, and I also like the fact that in the RT82 to RT85 you aren't paying for an internal phono stage. It's also a great looking piece of gear. I think you'd be happy with the RT-85.

A friend of mine owns a U-turn and he isn't as impressed with it as I am with the Fluance. We might have different standards. He also really likes my Fluance, for whatever that's worth.

 

[skhan007]

DO PLEASE BE WARNED

As I said earlier, a better cartidge will be limited by the tonearm and the resonant nature of the deck itself! Vinyl playback depends on miniscule movements of a rock and cantilever system running in a groove in a plastic disc and resonances in the deck structure will definitely affect mid-bass performance as well as altering spatial perspectives in the recording as pressed into the vinyl. The 2M Blue is a fussy beastie at the best of times and the 2M Red as toppy and rough as Grado's are dull and well, dull... Nagaoka's in the UK are silly money bearing ion mind they were good but basically bottom of the barrel when I first heard of them.

Take a look at the German Lowbeats site for Ortofon and AT reviews. There's responses, distortion figures, close ups of some of the diamond profiles and sound bites too (done on a pretty inert top-model Rega platform).

Thank you and I shall heed your words!!

It sounds like me buying a cartridge, like a Ortofon Blue, would possibly result in limited or suboptimal performance, because the tone arm and deck materials on my TT are mediocre, correct? Thus, I would not be getting all the cartridge has to offer, as the cartridge performance is reliant upon the tone arm and deck materials. Am I understanding correctly?

I did find the AT cartridge you recommended here: https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Techni...TgifQ==&sprefix=at%20vm95e,aps,56&sr=8-3&th=1

My current cartridge is: https://www.lpgear.com/product/SANYTP1005.html

Do we believe the AT would be a step-up from the my current cartridge? I would venture that's a yes, but curious about opinions. Lastly, I like the idea of a new head shell to go with the new cartridge, as shown above.

 

[spiral scratch]

terrific. nicely done.

looks like a mid compliance arm. it doesn't look too bad. the at-95e is mid compliance as well so should work well with your arm. a popular and decent budget cartridge. I'm not sure it's a performance bump from what you have rather than a lateral move. you could just get a new stylus for that sanyo cartridge like in your link.

 

[skhan007]

Thanks- in addition to the AT95e, there are a few others listed on this site I could research: https://www.turntableneedles.com/find10.asp?manfg=SANYO-Fisher&modelname=TP-1005&Select=Model

Another thought is getting a phono pre with a simple three-band EQ. My current set up lacks treble in my opinion. I might give this one a shot: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09C164CR...colid=OXJYFV37MN7G&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

[spiral scratch]

yeh, have a look around as the cartridge does make the music. DSJR mentioned the AT 95E has been superseded by AT VM95E which looks to be a more refined product so should provide better sound.

 

[mike70]

yeh, have a look around as the cartridge does make the music. DSJR mentioned the AT 95E has been superseded by AT VM95E which looks to be a more refined product so should provide better sound.

mmm ... the cartridge makes the music in a great part, yes, but don't forget we're talking about a mechanical device based on very tiny vibrations. Wow & flutter exists, better tonearm exists, etc etc.
Cartridge takes the best part, yes, I agree ... but, with a basic turntable that can be also a big generalization. I don't say you need a 5k turntable ... no, no and no. But, there are limits to "cartridge does makes the sound".

I prefer a decent turntable with a basic cartridge than a spectacular cartridge in a basic turntable.

 

[skhan007]

mmm ... the cartridge makes the music in a great part, yes, but don't forget we're talking about a mechanical device based on very tiny vibrations. Wow & flutter exists, better tonearm exists, etc etc.
Cartridge takes the best part, yes, I agree ... but, with a basic turntable that can be also a big generalization. I don't say you need a 5k turntable ... no, no and no. But, there are limits to "cartridge does makes the sound".

I prefer a decent turntable with a basic cartridge than a spectacular cartridge in a basic turntable.

In your opinion, given that my turntable is "OK" at best, is the suggested AT95E a reasonable match or would you say my TT is not worth upgrading? Genuinely curious.