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Buying advice Turntable without snake oil

If you’re buying re-releases or new music on vinyl I wouldn’t bother as it will very likely have been digitally processed at one point in the chain so it’s pretty pointless - may as well just stream it. (This is from someone who buys vinyl very regularly)

But if you want to play original recordings then the new technics 1500 has phono stage built in and just fits yr budget.
 
You are absolutely right with your objections and advice. I think my aim is to get the most "analog" sound possible (I already have the analytical sound from digital sources). As I said, I have this 100 year old music chest with a Dual 1008A and I sometimes enjoy the music more than on my hi-fi system, the music is certainly cruel in terms of its objective measurement values, but somehow it has a very pleasant "lively and real" effect on me. I would like to have the same effect as an option for my hi-fi system.
 
Marcus85 said:
I think my aim is to get the most "analog" sound possible (I already have the analytical sound from digital sources).
Click to expand...
You really want to go down the road of getting different "sounds" by using different kinds of obsolete playback gear?

There are cheaper and easier ways to get "the most 'analog' sound", and controllable too.

If you have a computer, use some VST effects to dial a sound according to your preference. There are effects for tape saturation, vinyl mastering compression and roll off, wow and flutter, incorrect speed, surface noise, pops and clicks, dust noise, worn-out needles, tube distortion, crummy speakers, the works, all the classic gear. It will cost much less than trying to do it using stuff like LPs and TTs and needles. And it's controllable.

Seriously. Look at this. For $30 you got Fairchild 660 and 670 limiters. $30!


There are thousands of such plugins for you to enjoy designing "most analog sound".
 
Multicore said:
You really want to go down the road of getting different "sounds" by using different kinds of obsolete playback gear?

There are cheaper and easier ways to get "the most 'analog' sound", and controllable too.

If you have a computer, use some VST effects to dial a sound according to your preference. There are effects for tape saturation, vinyl mastering compression and roll off, wow and flutter, incorrect speed, surface noise, pops and clicks, dust noise, worn-out needles, tube distortion, crummy speakers, the works, all the classic gear. It will cost much less than trying to do it using stuff like LPs and TTs and needles. And it's controllable.

Seriously. Look at this. For $30 you got Fairchild 660 and 670 limiters. $30!


There are thousands of such plugins for you to enjoy designing "most analog sound".
Click to expand...
Mhm, you're probably right, but I also like the ritual of putting on a real record and I also have a few hundred old records from my parents, so the whole thing has a certain idealistic and emotional value for me.
 
Marcus85 said:
You are absolutely right with your objections and advice. I think my aim is to get the most "analog" sound possible (I already have the analytical sound from digital sources). As I said, I have this 100 year old music chest with a Dual 1008A and I sometimes enjoy the music more than on my hi-fi system, the music is certainly cruel in terms of its objective measurement values, but somehow it has a very pleasant "lively and real" effect on me. I would like to have the same effect as an option for my hi-fi system.
Click to expand...
Maybe you want to stick to your Dual 1008a, make sure everything's in working order. The better/more recent the turntable and cartridge, the more it is going to sound like digital replay. If you want that "old", nostalgic sound then maybe you really want to stick to old gear. I'm not being facetious, just noting that the sound of good vinyl replay and digital replay really isn't all that far apart, while the sonic distance from old gear like this and modern digital replay is.

Photo of the Dual 1008a turntable:

1183_1.jpg
 
Marcus85 said:
Mhm, you're probably right, but I also like the ritual of putting on a real record and I also have a few hundred old records from my parents, so the whole thing has a certain idealistic and emotional value for me.
Click to expand...

Better ignore all those OT-ish »Vinyl won’t do you any good, kid« posts ...
 
Robin L said:
Maybe you want to stick to your Dual 1008a, make sure everything's in working order. The better/more recent the turntable and cartridge, the more it is going to sound like digital replay. If you want that "old", nostalgic sound then maybe you really want to stick to old gear. I'm not being facetious, just noting that the sound of good vinyl replay and digital replay really isn't all that far apart, while the sonic distance from old gear like this and modern digital replay is.

Photo of the Dual 1008a turntable:

View attachment 440485
Click to expand...
Yes, I've already thought about that. The only thing that really bothers me about the Dual 1008A is that it can only play a maximum of 7-inch singles. Perhaps I could use the Din connection for tape players to connect an old record player.
 
Marcus85 said:
Mhm, you're probably right, but I also like the ritual of putting on a real record and I also have a few hundred old records from my parents, so the whole thing has a certain idealistic and emotional value for me.
Click to expand...
I asked you before.
Multicore said:
But first, do you have a collection to play?
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Because if you do then you need some gear to play it in which case see #8 above. The Denon and AT I suggested both come set up with a cart and with preamp so it's easy to get started playing those old records. Enjoy! (play the upgrade game another day if you really want)
 
congret's on your desition!

you should be save with any Rega and manual Project Turntable. from 500€
easy test: you must not feel any play in tonearm bearings. platter without belt should turn at least for 1 min+ from 33 1/3 U/min.

Cartridge: AT (best value) with the best stylus you can afford: boron +ML,MR etc. MC are better than MM- full stop. (200-900€) you will hear every technical upgrade.
aluminium to boron, elliptical to ML,MR- etc.

( i really like this no nonsense forum for the scientific work on digital products- i do not understand the hate for vinyl.)

phono preamp:pick from Amir's list
 
Multicore said:
I asked you before.

Because if you do then you need some gear to play it in which case see #8 above. The Denon and AT I suggested both come set up with a cart and with preamp so it's easy to get started playing those old records. Enjoy! (play the upgrade game another day if you really want)
Click to expand...
Sorry I didn't respond to your detailed comment and thank you for your welcome! :)
Well, I would definitely consider your suggested turntables, technically they are certainly great, but I don't quite like this Dj-like look.
 
Marcus85 said:
Mhm, you're probably right, but I also like the ritual of putting on a real record and I also have a few hundred old records from my parents, so the whole thing has a certain idealistic and emotional value for me.
Click to expand...
I agree with @Multicore. I would like to experiment with plugins in my listening chain.

When the vinyl masters were cut, they used different compression and EQ which may sound subjectively pleasant. Lows take up a lot of groove space, and the highs were rolled off very low by today's standards to prevent burning up even actively cooled cutter heads.

I always suggest a linear tracking arm which you find in vintage turntables, and they are usually automatic-playing. There are exotic new linear arms which are fiddly and expensive. I have a Revox which does have a good spare parts supply and techs who maintain them.

The only suggestion I would make, especially if you have a large collection, is some way to clean your discs. I got rid of my vinyl, so I can't suggest a specific brand or cleaning fluids. I'm curious about the ultrasonic disc cleaners.
 
Marcus85 said:
Yes, I've already thought about that. The only thing that really bothers me about the Dual 1008A is that it can only play a maximum of 7-inch singles. Perhaps I could use the Din connection for tape players to connect an old record player.
Click to expand...
It appears that your 1008a has the 45 rpm automatic spindle. I suspect that can be easily replaced with the spindle for 33 1/3 LPs, at least that appears to be the case:

 
Marcus85 said:
Mhm, you're probably right, but I also like the ritual of putting on a real record and I also have a few hundred old records from my parents, so the whole thing has a certain idealistic and emotional value for me.
Click to expand...
Take a moment to be clear about what you really want.
If it's your post #22 (sound) then this isn't the best way to go.
If it's post #24 (ritual/nostalgia), that's absolutely fine but think about how much you really want to spend for that.
It's something I wrestled with when I thought about upgrading my TT, and decided not to.

Stick to your budget, and to the lower end: you'll still get a really nice system.
 
Marcus85 said:
So you mean removing the whole turntable and replacing it with the 1009? I really have no idea...
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No - see if the center spindle can be swapped out for one suitable for LPs. According to the Vinyl Engine post I attached, the 1008a is a fully automatic turntable capable of playing 33 & 1/3 discs.

Description
The Dual 1008 A is a 4-speed, idler driven, fully automatic, record changer

Specifications​

Type: auto record changer

Drive method: idler drive

Speeds: 16, 33, 45 and 78rpm

Record size: 17, 25 and 30cm

Record capacity: 10 discs

Cartridge: CDS 620

Tracking force: 5 to 6g

I'm going to guess that this turntable uses a ceramic cartridge, so you probably want to see if you can replace the stylus. 5 to 6 grams of downward force on a record is high but is also typical for older ceramic cartridges. If you can't replace the spindle and stylus, I guess you're back to square one. But if you can, you'll get "that sound" and this would be your least expensive option.
 
Last edited:
Marcus85 said:
Sorry I didn't respond to your detailed comment and thank you for your welcome! :)
Well, I would definitely consider your suggested turntables, technically they are certainly great, but I don't quite like this Dj-like look.
Click to expand...
w/regard to turntables, the aesthetic is the sole motivating factor. Many older enthusiasts like myself simply have a too valuable and extensive collection of vinyl to ignore. Have to play it and look at the cool artwork/liner notes. If you don't have a collection of pristine records already, I'd also caution against a big investment in the whole TT universe. Used records generally sound pretty bad(poor condition) and are in a lousy supply/demand $$ position. The young man I work with spends hundreds of dollars on "collector" records. I do not understand that . . .
https://www.audioadvisor.com/pre1p-wht?sku=DEMO-PRE1P-WHT< This one looks affordable and "all-in-one" - retailer is a decent specialist in vinyl
Best of Luck
 
Eric Natural said:
w/regard to turntables, the aesthetic is the sole motivating factor. Many older enthusiasts like myself simply have a too valuable and extensive collection of vinyl to ignore. Have to play it and look at the cool artwork/liner notes. If you don't have a collection of pristine records already, I'd also caution against a big investment in the whole TT universe. Used records generally sound pretty bad(poor condition) and are in a lousy supply/demand $$ position. The young man I work with spends hundreds of dollars on "collector" records. I do not understand that . . .
https://www.audioadvisor.com/pre1p-wht?sku=DEMO-PRE1P-WHT< This one looks affordable and "all-in-one" - retailer is a decent specialist in vinyl
Best of Luck
Click to expand...
So to summarize, in terms of my intentions and requirements, it probably doesn't matter which record player I buy, whether it costs €200 or €2000. In principle, I can limit my purchase decision completely to the look and features, can't I?

In this sense, I find the Fiio tt13 very interesting. It has automatic, remote control and a phono stage that can be switched off.
 
EERecordist said:
I'm curious about the ultrasonic disc cleaners.
Click to expand...
I bought this and it resurrected some thrift store finds as well as cleaning some treasured classics. https://www.vevor.com/ultrasonic-cl...sonic-cleaning-machine-6l-knob-p_010744704911

If they are on streaming, those LPs sit on the shelf and I can't remember the last time I played any records. I realize "vinyl" is popular right now and I could put some rare gems on Ebay but I'm keeping all my physical media. I got my VPI TT adjusted and playing well after all the dozen or so mechanical and alignment fuzziness that comes with it. I don't think it's going out of wack sitting there and friends ask me about it, so the craze lives on. As for streaming I feel as with so many things, the providers will consolidate, tier levels of the number of times one can play certain content will be limited, content will disappear on one site or another and premium content will emerge like TV, and prices will rise. The best advice I can give is Craigslist because looking at SFBA there has to be 50+ TTs ready for purchase and start out inexpensive and make sure that it is used and valued.
 
Marcus85 said:
So to summarize, in terms of my intentions and requirements, it probably doesn't matter which record player I buy, whether it costs €200 or €2000. In principle, I can limit my purchase decision completely to the look and features, can't I?

In this sense, I find the Fiio tt13 very interesting. It has automatic, remote control and a phono stage that can be switched off.
Click to expand...
There is a basic level of competence below which you are buying a toy, not a turntable. I'd suggest Rega P1, AT LP120. I don't know the FiiO at all.

A good €200 deck is OK - a poor one is not. I'd suggest that €200 is a minimum budget, and I'd say that includes a very basic cartridge/stylus that you will want to upgrade if you find that you play records regularly
 
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