TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review

[GaryH]

None of us have a RA0045 in our heads, which is why people like Oratory1990 always state that their suggested PEQ (based on their measurements from 'standardised' GRAS xxx or whatever) should be tuned to listener preference.

Of course there's nothing wrong with then adjusting to taste

 

[smcc]

And as silly as it seems, try this: open your mouth, lift up your ear by the top with one hand (these both open up the ear canal), then insert the IEM with the other hand, and while still pushing them in snugly, close your mouth and let go of your ear (to 'close' back your ear canal around the tip).

This is good advice, just reminded me, the audiologist that made my custom attenuators (ear plugs) said the exact same thing years ago, and I totally forgot, wee flashback, ha. If I remember correctly, he also suggested you'd be less likely to push wax up into your ear doing it this way...

On another note, I managed to fit these into my custom ear plugs...they sounded like shit...they sealed OK, but didn't go far enough down into them...

 

[smcc]

Also, just wanted to mention, I think they sound good...but also feel they're a bit hyped in the 2-4k ish area...only used them a little bit so far...but also not getting a great fit with any of the stock tips...which is nothing new, I've always had this problem with IEMs...and ear plugs, hence got custom ones...with the largest tips with the smaller bore, I got the best sound, but I really had to shove them way down into my ear...the rest were totally unusable.

Seems like it might be worth getting custom moulds for these...they're good enough for what I'd want them for, maybe buy another three pairs to justify the cost of the moulds long term...they sounded really good at one point when got them seated right after much fiddling...but even getting up and moving around and it fell apart...

Also they're plenty loud with an iPhone XS and the Apple dongle anyway, my ears were ringing after listening for an hour...(Apple Music lossless with soundcheck on)

I also spent a small bit of time manually sweeping around a sine wave with Audiotools signal generator...more or less confirmed some of what I heard, re 2-4k...

Also did small test were I EQed a mix (master bus) with these and then revisited it with my KH310As...roughly I was pushing this same area back up about 2/3dB on the 310s...below image the listening position response with my 310s (1/48 lines 1dB) for reference...this was all a few days ago BTW, before I read this thread at all, so genuinely no confirmation bias...I actually just read the review and bought them immediately based on Amirs "go buy them now" advice...total impulse.

Anyway bit of a rant...I'll get around to doing some better tests at some point...might try the aftermarket tips rabbit hole first, lol.

 

[Chromatischism]

I also spent a small bit of time manually sweeping around a sine wave with Audiotools signal generator...more or less confirmed some of what I heard, re 2-4k...

Yep, also there is a resonance at 5 kHz that needs to be killed and the bass re-shaped:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...x-crinacle-zero-iem-review.37380/post-1338981

All done with the small-bore, large silicone tips, but also tested to sound great with the foam tips.

 

[staticV3]

Compare this with the difference between (response 'error' of) the 'hi-res' RA0402 compared to the 'standard' RA0045 as measured by GRAS (only for one, unnamed IEM mind):

Here's a more realistic (less smoothed) comparison of the same IEM on a ra0045 and ra040x:

Source

 

[Spinitch]

Would be grateful Recommendation for Eq app using Amazon music on iPhone vs Apples mystery presets?

 

[Jimbob54]

Would be grateful Recommendation for Eq app using Amazon music on iPhone vs Apples mystery presets?

I think you'll struggle but have a look here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...acos-ios-ipados-and-android.18450/post-602403

The best option for parametric eq of many source apps on iphone seems to be buying a qudelix 5k dac/amp that has good onboard eq. But thats a $100 purchase

 

[GaryH]

Here's a more realistic (less smoothed) comparison of the same IEM on a ra0045 and ra040x:
View attachment 235759
Source

That's even more of a difference than GRAS's example, especially around 2-4 kHz, with the response below that of the RA0045. If this difference is similar for the Truthear Zero, its elevation above the Harman target in that frequency range could be even higher, with a peak ~3 dB over target instead of the 2 dB measured on here with the RA0402, which could further explain why so many are finding it 'shouty'.

 

[bunkbail]

I hope the EQ at least puts the compass in the right direction?

It kinda did, but details weren't as prominent as stock and if I try to attenuate the mids/highs any further, I just get less details with tinny sound. I played around with the EQ for hours but I was going nowhere since everything I did just won't make it sound good.

Are you getting a solid seal? Does it give you an earplug-like effect?

Only if I use Comply tips but still, those shoutiness won't go away.

 

[RandomEar]

It kinda did, but details weren't as prominent as stock and if I try to attenuate the mids/highs any further, I just get less details with tinny sound. I played around with the EQ for hours but I was going nowhere since everything I did just won't make it sound good.


Only if I use Comply tips but still, those shoutiness won't go away.

If you try to EQ based on music only, this will be very difficult in my experience. If you still got the motivation, I'd recommend using some online equal loudness tester. Tune in 1 kHz to your normal listening level, then start to tune up and down from there by comparing each frequency to the 1 kHz reference and adjusting the EQ step by step.

Recently did this with some IEMs and I was really surprised how much closer that brought'em to neutral speakers. Still some more tuning to do, because the frequency steps were a bit coarse, but the results are already pretty convincing.

 

[GaryH]

If you try to EQ based on music only, this will be very difficult in my experience. If you still got the motivation, I'd recommend using some online equal loudness tester. Tune in 1 kHz to your normal listening level, then start to tune up and down from there by comparing each frequency to the 1 kHz reference and adjusting the EQ step by step.

Recently did this with some IEMs and I was really surprised how much closer that brought'em to neutral speakers. Still some more tuning to do, because the frequency steps were a bit coarse, but the results are already pretty convincing.

You shouldn't EQ frequency response by equal loudness:
https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/rrive8/_/hqgtd7n

 

[Chromatischism]

If you try to EQ based on music only, this will be very difficult in my experience. If you still got the motivation, I'd recommend using some online equal loudness tester. Tune in 1 kHz to your normal listening level, then start to tune up and down from there by comparing each frequency to the 1 kHz reference and adjusting the EQ step by step.

Recently did this with some IEMs and I was really surprised how much closer that brought'em to neutral speakers. Still some more tuning to do, because the frequency steps were a bit coarse, but the results are already pretty convincing.

I used a tone sweep and confirmed with dense, full range music.

 

[Chromatischism]

You shouldn't EQ frequency response by equal loudness:
https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/rrive8/_/hqgtd7n

Disagree. Tones first, music second.

Why? Because a tone sweep is the ultimate pink noise. Some music gets close, but the error bars are greater so it's harder to tune. And you don't have a frequency reference to go off, only guesses, making it more tedious.

 

[Chromatischism]

It kinda did, but details weren't as prominent as stock and if I try to attenuate the mids/highs any further, I just get less details with tinny sound. I played around with the EQ for hours but I was going nowhere since everything I did just won't make it sound good.

High frequency details won't be as prominent because they aren't supposed to jump out of the frequency band like the stock tuning. Does it sound like neutral speakers in a room? What's your reference?

Only if I use Comply tips but still, those shoutiness won't go away.

I do feel that my EQ could use another -0.5 dB from 2.5 to 5 kHz. I might try that later. Otherwise I'm not sure what else to do.

 

[GaryH]

Disagree. Tones first, music second.

Why? Because a tone sweep is the ultimate pink noise. Some music gets close, but the error bars are greater so it's harder to tune. And you don't have a frequency reference to go off, only guesses, making it more tedious.

A sine sweep is a bogus test. If the tones are supposed to be equally loud the headphone or loudspeaker will look like an equal loudness contour which will vary depending on the SPL
A better test for judging spectral balance is wideband noise and music. We used music.

 

[Robbo99999]

Here's a more realistic (less smoothed) comparison of the same IEM on a ra0045 and ra040x:
View attachment 235759
Source

That's even more of a difference than GRAS's example, especially around 2-4 kHz, with the response below that of the RA0045. If this difference is similar for the Truthear Zero, its elevation above the Harman target in that frequency range could be even higher, with a peak ~3 dB over target instead of the 2 dB measured on here with the RA0402, which could further explain why so many are finding it 'shouty'.

Well, we can go off Amir's measurement though instead of Crinacle's, if we think Crinacle's is not reflecting the most accurate picture. Not been following all the in's & out's of your conversation, but Amir's are done on a bonafide GRAS.

 

[staticV3]

@Robbo99999 an expensive rig does not guarantee good measurements. See here, here, here

 

[GaryH]

Well, we can go off Amir's measurement though instead of Crinacle's, if we think Crinacle's is not reflecting the most accurate picture. Not been following all the in's & out's of your conversation, but Amir's are done on a bonafide GRAS.

Still not using the same coupler (the GRAS RA0402) as Harman used though (the RA0045), which as seen in the post by @staticV3 you quoted above, can produce significant differences in the measurements. The point is neither of them use the coupler Harman used when developing the in-ear target (Crinacle using a fake RA0045 clone), so measurements from both will result in a less accurate approximation of the Truthear's (or any IEM's) deviation from the Harman target than measurements using a (genuine) RA0045, as Oratory does.

 

[Chromatischism]

The tone sweep was invaluable for identifying resonances. All of the things I knocked down coincide with all of my music testing, they just helped me get to that point much faster and more accurately. Everything is confirmed, including additional tweaking, referencing against my neutral speakers in a room and deep understanding of the music I'm using for testing. My "tuning forks".

What Sean is right about is that the tuning is only valid for one volume range. But that's true for everything in audio because we are always dealing with human perception. The volumes I use for testing are representative of what most people use when they listen to music.

 

[Chromatischism]

Also, his comment about how using a tone sweep would lead to corrections that look like an equal loudness curve, so use music instead - what do you think music is? The result would be the same. It all has to pass through our ears.