The way electrical issues works, most of the time, not all the time, each devices on their own are fine, that's when you put them in a system that ground loops or other problems arise. There is just not one single "right" way to do things. There is no such thing as, device X is immune to electrical issues. It depend what there is connected to it.I would agree replacing it would be better but you seam to know audiophiles better then me... How would they react if you tell them to just replace there >1000$ turntable and tube amp with an 200$ chine dac
I don’t see "N" nor do i see G in this picture... i assume your referring to PE and L2 in this picture?Do you realize the N and G are bonded?
This is unavoidable do to physics there is always some parasitic capacitance and leakage.This is common practice in industry,, impedance grounding of sorts.
How do you know? why? where is ths number coming from?The value of Risol is 24xRk, 120 kOhm
Just spent 5 minutes (thankfully not a waste of my life as watching some sport on the TV) looking at the Amazon reviews and basically this product is an economic solution for hum and buzz on mostly mid-fi AV and guitar amps, amongst many other applications, and often it is being used to isolate devices from each other. The irony is that a high-end audio IS250 happy customer got rid of a hum using the IS250 to isolate his CD player and pre-amp, and plugged his tube amplifier into the wall.I am arriving at the conclusion that these people absolutely believe in benefit of such devices despite all the evidence I have produced. They use them themselves and are defending them as such. It shows how strong the assumptions are around this category product that even our core members believe in them. And worse yet, are unwilling to change their mind despite large volume of data presented to them
Quite right, the problem with testing "this category product" in isolation is that their merit is primarily as part of a system.The way electrical issues works, most of the time, not all the time, each devices on their own are fine, that's when you put them in a system that ground loops or other problems arise. There is just not one single "right" way to do things. There is no such thing as, device X is immune to electrical issues. It depend what there is connected to it.
They are bonded thru an impedance.I don’t know what your trying to say.
I don’t see "N" nor do i see G in this picture... i assume your referring to PE and L2 in this picture?
What do you men by "bonded"?
Bonded means to me held on the same potential.
but they are not.
They are only loosely referenced via unavoidable parasitic transformer to ground(PE) captive coupling (CL-L1)
and parasitic transformer isolation resistance to ground (PE) (Risol L-L1)
This is unavoidable do to physics there is always some parasitic capacitance and leakage.
What do you mean by "impedance grounding of sorts." Grounding always has an impedance.
How do you know? why? where is ths number coming from?
Risol can be Mega or Giga ohms.
Maybe some making the improvements they claim to hear up. but only 9% "bad" reviews is telling surely it must do something right.If this cheap product can eliminate hum or buzz, or other power issues, which it clearly did for most but not all buyers, then if the the measurements say it's useless, they aren't telling the whole story. I think you are deluding yourself that people here are suffering from owner bias.
It sure did help for someIf this cheap product can eliminate hum or buzz, or other power issues, which it clearly did for most but not all buyers, then if the the measurements say it's useless, they aren't telling the whole story.
They? common put some effort in your explanation your talking about L2 and PE?They are bonded thru an impedance.
Stop with the insults.Maybe some making the improvements they claim to hear up. but only 9% "bad" reviews is telling surely it must do something right.
But on the other hand... maybe you can’t trust Amazon reviews.
View attachment 199033
It sure did help for some
The thing is a million measurements that show it dose nothing don’t proof it can’t do nothing
But one single test showing it’s working proves it can work.
They? common put some effort in your explanation your talking about L2 and PE?
Then everything in the universe is bonded to everything trough an impedance... some are just very high.
The question here is if the impedance is high or low.
How do you made up this 120kOhm number?
What "R" what kit? Pleases you need to be more precises...The R is part of the kit
i did not i just quoted your post and asked how you came up with this number.You tell me how you derive the 120 k
cool.This is effortless for me
Cool you shuld Email them. i’m sure they are happy to her from you.And Bender (they) used the wrong body R. International standards are 600 - 2000 Ohm depending on conditions.
Perhaps he has EH rated shoes and gloves. But then 120 would not shock him, he would not conduct.
The Bender product you posted.What "R" what kit? Pleases you need to be more precises...
Your Talking about "Risol" like "isolation" so the inherent isolation resistance from the transformer?
But what "kit" the transformer is not including any "kit"
i did not i just quoted your post and asked how you came up with this number.
cool.
Cool you shuld Email them. i’m sure they are happy to her from you.
I don’t actually see them use a fixed but value for boy resistance "Rk" in the picture you posted... but maybe your looking at an other picture without telling us?
Phono preamps are not a reliable device to use for this as they are already so variable just sitting there.From an Engendering side i would say test it on an device that has problems wit Mains leaks and has high amplification / Lowe level input signals. like a phonon preamp.
The fault I is divided between the person Rk and Risol.What "R" what kit? Pleases you need to be more precises...
Your Talking about "Risol" like "isolation" so the inherent isolation resistance from the transformer?
But what "kit" the transformer is not including any "kit"
i did not i just quoted your post and asked how you came up with this number.
cool.
Cool you shuld Email them. i’m sure they are happy to her from you.
I don’t actually see them use a fixed but value for boy resistance "Rk" in the picture you posted... but maybe your looking at an other picture without telling us?
"We" and as opposed to whom? and how would you do it before. sounds like you need a time machine.We prefer to trip before the person is shocked. Not while being shocked.
lol nop.The fault I is divided between the person Rk and Risol.
What if Risol was not there?
What if the relay ground was lifted?
What does Id>> mean?
You mean infinite. then no current would flow... so now shockWhat if Risol was not there?
Nice deflection. But no answers. Lol"We" and as opposed to whom? and how would you do it before. sounds like you need a time machine.
Or you define a "save" current that don’t count as shock.
lol nop.
you can say current an resistance btw.
But no fault current is Not divided between the person (Rk) and the isolation (Risol) resistance.
they are in Series! current I will not divide if in series...
Maybe you shuld go back to the basic and look at kirchosf current law.
You mean infinite. then no current would flow... so now shock
Or question his opinion.
No current would flow.What if Risol was not there?
there is no "relay" i’m sure your referring to the IMD "isolation monitoring device"What if the relay ground was lifted?
so it can be detect if L1 or L2 are making contact to the enclosureWhy is the enclosure bonded?
the majority of the drain currentWhat does Id>> mean?
Really? Not divided or in //? Lol
How would 5 V be impressed across the body Rk with NO I?
WrongNo current would flow.
there is no "relay" i’m sure your referring to the IMD "isolation monitoring device"
it would potbelly detect if it ground would be lifted... but this depends on specifics not in this simplified schematic ant also not relevant for this discussion.
so it can be detect if L1 or L2 are making contact to the enclosure
and as an safety measure to keep its potential low.
the majority of the drain current
No one claims ther is 5V? don’t you know what " < " means?
View attachment 199068
Green is the current going trough the person as you can see
Rk Rst Rae1 Rae Risol are in series
so no "division"
if Risol is infinite no current will flow trough Rk
Not where i'm from... but clear communication don't seam to be your goal.In engineering vernacular it is a relay
"It" refers to what?It must be bonded to trip upon a ground fault or the person is the only path
"It" again ?It means the value of Id (based on Risol) must be much greater the capacitive coupling current. Why? Keep reading
the touch voltage is not 0.Ut ~< 5 V, 1 mA max = It, thru Rk/person.
"t" subscript is touch.
Less than, not 0, or they would say
Ut = 0
It's based on what Risol is selected to allow the relay setpoint >> capacitive coupling current to avoid nuisance tripping.
What you’re saying is very true and quite reasonable but what might be a problem for some people is that when this becomes projected on the mainstream consumer device which is not possibly the culprit here.I am arriving at the conclusion that these people absolutely believe in benefit of such devices despite all the evidence I have produced. They use them themselves and are defending them as such. It shows how strong the assumptions are around this category product that even our core members believe in them. And worse yet, are unwilling to change their mind despite large volume of data presented to them.