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Trinnov Altitude / JBL SDP-75

Olli

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Hi @DonH56 and @Olli
Olli, thanks for the graphs. The phase and group displays seem to indicate not too much timing correction down low... It will be interesting to see some REW measures.

So guys, how does it sound? :)

Better after the various tweaks - but AL remains my #1 :)

Trinnov Tweak 1 (Pres 8):
Max Boost: 10 DB
Max Attentuation: -16 DB
Quantity of Early reflections: 3 cycles
Resolution of energy response: 1/3 oct
Filter lenght: 100 ms
# IIR filters: 20
IIR filterd max frequency: 150 Hz

Trinnov Tweak 2 (Pres 3):
Max Boost: 12 DB
Max Attentuation: -18 DB
Quantity of Early reflections: 5 cycles
Resolution of energy response: 1/6 oct
Filter lenght: 600 ms
# IIR filters: 30
IIR filterd max frequency: 200 Hz

200513_Trinnov_tweaked_vs_AL.jpg


Step Response & GD Tweak 1:

200513_Step_Resp_Trinnov_Pres8.jpg

200513_GD_Trinnov_Pres8.jpg


Step response & GD Tweak 2:

200513_Step_Resp_Trinnov_Pres3.jpg

200513_GD_Trinnov_Pres3.jpg

Step Response & GD AL:

200513_Step_Resp_AL.jpg

200513_GD_AL.jpg

The full REW measurements are here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_OYZ5kB9OvErXeEmUXPZMD-iXjhBKaP5

Happy to hear about ideas for further improvement!
 

Dimifoot

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You need to slope downwards 8-10db’s your target curve.
 

Olli

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I played around with the "resolution of energy response" settings and it shows quite a positive effect on the flatness of the FR - what would be the downside of setting it to its max value (1/24 oct)?

Speaker Left:

1589517652992.png
1589517667691.png


Subwoofer
1589517690858.png
1589517706838.png
 

Dimifoot

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Olli

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I checked - they are really super responsive and helpful. No downside according to them, it is just someting that whether it's working or not is very room dependent.
 
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Dimifoot

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I checked - they are really super repsonsive and helpful. No downside according to them, it is just someting that whether it's working or not is very room dependent.

Maximum eq/correction doesn't always guarantee better sound.
 

Dimifoot

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Found the time to calibrate the bed channels. Target was 0.9db/oct
(MMM, 2 center seats)

C3F8D608-0EE4-4C4D-AF4B-E6445F33AA4D.jpeg

Any chance to show phase or group delay or a step response as well? Measured at the MLP?
I haven’t forgotten about this @mitchko, just a bit lazy to dig out the tripod from storage.
 

Dimifoot

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And their average VS target.
I will have to do elevation speakers at some point this week

av:ta.jpg
 
OP
DonH56

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I am never posting my measurements here, too many way better than I can achieve.

Today I combined a 12 V power supply, trigger cable, and IR-controlled remote relay to make an IR on/off trigger for my SDP-75. Now my Harmony One turns the SDP-75 on and off with everything else. I'm still befuddled why a $25k or whatever processor cannot be turned on and off by the remote. Oh well, what's another $50 in parts and an hour of time to improve one's laziness factor? :)

Eventually maybe I'll have more time to actually listen to it! I did add a couple more measurement points sometime last week (wicked hours, week's a blur) and reran the Optimizer with more filters and higher resolution. Haven't done any listening/comparing of them yet.
 

Olli

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Cool! Exactly what I was looking for! I turn it on with WOL, because I couldn’t find a ready made IR trigger. Could you give more details about the parts and how you‘ve build it? Ideally for someone how is already considering proper soldering a challenge :)
 

QMuse

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Better after the various tweaks - but AL remains my #1 :)

Trinnov Tweak 1 (Pres 8):
Max Boost: 10 DB
Max Attentuation: -16 DB
Quantity of Early reflections: 3 cycles
Resolution of energy response: 1/3 oct
Filter lenght: 100 ms
# IIR filters: 20
IIR filterd max frequency: 150 Hz

Trinnov Tweak 2 (Pres 3):
Max Boost: 12 DB
Max Attentuation: -18 DB
Quantity of Early reflections: 5 cycles
Resolution of energy response: 1/6 oct
Filter lenght: 600 ms
# IIR filters: 30
IIR filterd max frequency: 200 Hz

View attachment 63093

Step Response & GD Tweak 1:

View attachment 63094
View attachment 63097

Step response & GD Tweak 2:

View attachment 63095
View attachment 63098
Step Response & GD AL:

View attachment 63096
View attachment 63099
The full REW measurements are here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_OYZ5kB9OvErXeEmUXPZMD-iXjhBKaP5

Happy to hear about ideas for further improvement!

You introduced potentially audible pre-ringing with your phase correction. Unlike GD, with which we live every day, pre-ringing is artificial artifact that doesn't exist in nature so our ears are much more sensitive to it than to GD.

Capture.JPG
 
Last edited:
OP
DonH56

DonH56

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Cool! Exactly what I was looking for! I turn it on with WOL, because I couldn’t find a ready made IR trigger. Could you give more details about the parts and how you‘ve build it? Ideally for someone how is already considering proper soldering a challenge :)

Parts (many similar parts available; I did not do an exhaustive search, and was putting together an Amazon order anyway):
12 V wall-wart with screw terminal adapter: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B077PW5JC3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Trigger cables: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B075SV1RHT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
IR remote relay: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QH6XP9P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

No instructions with any of it, natch. I printed out the IR remote relay description from Amazon just to remember the wiring but it is pretty straight-forward. I did solder wires, including couple of short jumpers using scrap wire I had around, but you could use wire splice connectors or just twist and wrap with electrical tape and you should be fine. Voltage and current is low.

Images came out large, sorry -- I just copied and pasted without resizing.

Connect IR box red wire and either the white or blue wire to the (+) power adapter terminal (screws into the green adapter terminals). Connect the black IR box wire and white wire from the trigger cable to the (-) power adapter terminal. Connect the unused blue or white wire from the IR box to the red wire of the trigger cable. I stripped a little extra insulation off the wires, added some jumpers to make it easier to connect everything, soldered the wires, and taped everything including the power adapter. Make sure everything is secure and taped to prevent shorts.

Plug the power adapter into the cable from the wall wart, trigger cable into the SDP-75/Trinnov trigger input, and position the IR relay box and sensor (black bead at the end of the short white cable) where the sensor is visible to the remote from your position. Pull the plastic from the battery on the remote first. ;) I checked the trigger circuit using my trusty 40-year-old RS multimeter, and then pulled the trigger output from the SDP-75 so I was not cycling everything on and off during testing, but the SDP-75 worked just fine. I was not sure if I could just plug in the trigger and it would work, or if I would have to set something else up on the SDP-75 -- turns out all you need do is plug in the cable.

I changed the SDP-75's power settings in my Harmony One by letting it learn the on and off signals from the little remote, and added a 60-second power-on delay for the SDP-75 to boot (60000 ms). So far so good, working great. I may paint the IR relay box black and muzzle the LED inside so it is better hidden in my room (it is sitting on top of my console at the moment).

Disclaimer: I just bought what was cheap and near the top of Amazon's bazillion-item list with decent (albeit not 5-star, more like 4.6) reviews. Most pieces require a little more work and adding a little box to house the relay and such; this solution was simple to wire up with minimal tools and can be done without soldering if you wish. My work schedule is pretty crazy right now and I just wanted something simple I could plumb and play. I also had in the back of my mind that several (non-technical) folk had asked for my solution and wanted to make it easy for them as well.

HTH - Don

1590332784750.png

1590332818671.png


1590332753429.png
 
Last edited:

Olli

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Parts (many similar parts available; I did not do an exhaustive search, and was putting together an Amazon order anyway):
12 V wall-wart with screw terminal adapter: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B077PW5JC3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Trigger cables: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B075SV1RHT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
IR remote relay: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QH6XP9P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

No instructions with any of it, natch. I printed out the IR remote relay description from Amazon just to remember the wiring but it is pretty straight-forward. I did solder wires, including couple of short jumpers using scrap wire I had around, but you could use wire splice connectors or just twist and wrap with electrical tape and you should be fine. Voltage and current is low.

Images came out large, sorry -- I just copied and pasted without resizing.

Connect IR box red wire and either the white or blue wire to the (+) power adapter terminal (screws into the green adapter terminals). Connect the black IR box wire and white wire from the trigger cable to the (-) power adapter terminal. Connect the unused blue or white wire from the IR box to the red wire of the trigger cable. I stripped a little extra insulation off the wires, added some jumpers to make it easier to connect everything, soldered the wires, and taped everything including the power adapter. Make sure everything is secure and taped to prevent shorts.

Plug the power adapter into the cable from the wall wart, trigger cable into the SDP-75/Trinnov trigger input, and position the IR relay box and sensor (black bead at the end of the short white cable) where the sensor is visible to the remote from your position. Pull the plastic from the battery on the remote first. ;) I checked the trigger circuit using my trusty 40-year-old RS multimeter, and then pulled the trigger output from the SDP-75 so I was not cycling everything on and off during testing, but the SDP-75 worked just fine. I was not sure if I could just plug in the trigger and it would work, or if I would have to set something else up on the SDP-75 -- turns out all you need do is plug in the cable.

I changed the SDP-75's power settings in my Harmony One by letting it learn the on and off signals from the little remote, and added a 60-second power-on delay for the SDP=75 to boot (60000 ms). So far so good, working great. I may paint the IR relay box black and muzzle the LED inside so it is better hidden in my room (it is sitting on top of my console at the moment).

Disclaimer: I just bought what was cheap and near the top of Amazon's bazillion-item list with decent (albeit not 5-star, more like 4.6) reviews. Most pieces require a little more work and adding a little box to house the relay and such; this solution was simple to wire up with minimal tools and can be done without soldering if you wish. My work schedule is pretty crazy right now and I just wanted something simple I could plumb and play. I also had in the back of my mind that several (non-technical) folk had asked for my solution and wanted to make it easy for them as well.

HTH - Don

View attachment 65133
View attachment 65134

View attachment 65132
Awesome, thanks! Ordered the IR thing from AMAZON US, the rest I have lying around anyways. Great hack for the 25 K AVR :)
 

Olli

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You introduced potentially audible pre-ringing with your phase correction. Unlike GD, with which we live every day, pre-ringing is artificial artifact that doesn't exist in nature so our ears are much more sensitive to it than to GD.

View attachment 65079
Good point. Didn’t hear it so far, but wasn’t concentrating on it. Let me check.
 

QMuse

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Good point. Didn’t hear it so far, but wasn’t concentrating on it. Let me check.

Listen for snare drums, or the ones that go deeper, that should reveal it.

Btw, Audiolense step response is ok, no problems there.
 

Balle Clorin

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Played a bit with IIR and FIR setting to see the separate end combined effects.
Stardard is FIR for 20-20k and IIR in addition below 150hz.


In this plot the correction was for the full 20-20k, but IIR range changes.
Capture.JPG



(I feel corrections above 1000Hz may not bee so good if you like the character of your speakers- I find a more open transparent sound wth no correction >1000 by limiting the "excursion curve ".)
 

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AVKV

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That's what I thought, but the JBL version disables/hides PEQ. I do not understand why, but there it is... Ironically, it allows you to load speaker-specific AEQ curves, so it is using PEQ in the background, just does not give the users access. Maybe as a group (consumers at large) we're too stupid so screw it up and thus it is a support nightmare for them? Dunno'...

At any rate, my option for now is a miniDSP or somethings similar.
The next JBL Synthesis SDP-75 firmware release will include both PEQ filter capabilities and AEQ EQ via drop-down speaker selections.
 

GXAlan

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The next JBL Synthesis SDP-75 firmware release will include both PEQ filter capabilities and AEQ EQ via drop-down speaker selections.

Welcome to the forum @AVKV ! Glad to have you here.
 
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