Trinnov Altitude / JBL SDP-75

[DonH56]

The next JBL Synthesis SDP-75 firmware release will include both PEQ filter capabilities and AEQ EQ via drop-down speaker selections.

Nice, any idea when that will be, and how consumers will know it's released?

Which reminds me that when JBL was helping me set it up, my unit was not in their system for some reason, need to ping my dealer and/or JBL about that. And about an HDMI handshaking issue (like every other product on the planet -- I have the HDMI spec but have not read it in years, what a mess).

My plans for further tweaking have been sidelined by an insane (but normal, alas) work schedule lately. Hoping to get back to it soon...

 

[Scott Borduin]

The next JBL Synthesis SDP-75 firmware release will include both PEQ filter capabilities and AEQ EQ via drop-down speaker selections.

That is great news, as I will be able to take the Minidsp out of my system and independently drive my 4 subs directly from the SDP-75. I use Multi Sub Optimizer to determine PEQ and delay for each sub, it is remarkably effective in my case.

Overall the SDP-75 is the best investment I've ever made in a piece of high-end gear. The combination of the Optimizer and the Auro-3D upmixer really do transform the listening experience.

 

[Olli]

Most pieces require a little more work and adding a little box to house the relay and such; this solution was simple to wire up with minimal tools and can be done without soldering if you wish. My work schedule is pretty crazy right now and I just wanted something simple I could plumb and play. I also had in the back of my mind that several (non-technical) folk had asked for my solution and wanted to make it easy for them as well.

Awesome, finally found the time to put it all together - works perfect.
Thanks Don!

 

[Balle Clorin]

just needed to put some notes here for reference,
FIR window vs Taps vs correction resolution

 

[Newman]

Overall the SDP-75 is the best investment I've ever made in a piece of high-end gear. The combination of the Optimizer and the Auro-3D upmixer really do transform the listening experience.

With stereo music?

 

[Olli]

With stereo music?

For stereo music I still use Audiolense. It‘s a big difference in the low frequency range.

 

[Scott Borduin]

With stereo music?

Yes, particularly with stereo music upmixed to Auro3D via Automatic. I listen to a lot of classical music, and in many cases the immersive quality from upmixed stereo rivals good multichannel recordings. And multichannel recordings also benefit significantly from upmixing if you have dedicated height speakers, as I do. Many pop recordings sound amazing through this as well.

I guess that's the big qualification: I have a 7.6.4 setup. The six heights are LCR top, LS/RS top, center top (aka Voice of God). The 3 mains are Salon2 LR, Voice2 Center, and the rest are all JBL 705i, all aimed at the listening position. I would never go back to 2 channel stereo listening after this, but of course its a big investment in money and visual compromises - fortunately this is a dedicated if not very large room.

Also I note that the Optimizer does a very good job from 100 hz up, but not so much below that. I have a multi-sub configuration driven by a MiniDSP, with PEQ and delays determined by the excellent Multi Sub Optimizer program. I get very flat low bass response from this, but the Optimizer always wants to screw it up and I end up adding additional PEQ in the MiniDSP to fix it up again.

 

[DonH56]

You could set the Optimizer to not EQ the subs and/or not EQ below a specified frequency; might help.

 

[ALFALFA]

Is there hope for Trinnov remaping in the JBL75 later?

 

[DonH56]

Is there hope for Trinnov remaping in the JBL75 later?

Not that I have heard. Dr. Toole and others have argued against that on various grounds. I don't remember all the arguments now. There are rumours of other features for both it and the factory Trinnov units based upon targeting smaller (consumer) rooms.

 

[Olli]

How do you handle different gain levels of external amps/subs?

Trinnov told me not to worry and to let the calibration tool handle the potentially different levels (although they recommended to adjust the levels manually in a webinar). In general, the reference output level setting of +18 dBu is quite hefty for non-pro gear.

In my case, e.g.:

• L+R via SPDIF into a Benchmark DAC3B (High Gain -> +24dBu) and a Benchmark AHB2 (Low-Gain = 22 dBu (9.8 Vrms), Gain = 9.2 dB )
• C: Hypex NC400 with 25,8 dB Gain.
• Subs: Rythmik FM8, using dual Ucd Hypex based Amps (2 x 300 W RMS) - I couldn't find any gain specs. But Rythmik says, that full scale 4V can push the front end into clipping.
• All other speakers: Hypex NC 252 with 25,5 dB Gain.

 

[Chrispy]

How do you handle different gain levels of external amps/subs?

Trinnov told me not to worry and to let the calibration tool handle the potentially different levels (although they recommended to adjust the levels manually in a webinar). In general, the reference output level setting of +18 dBu is quite hefty for non-pro gear.

In my case, e.g.:

• L+R via SPDIF into a Benchmark DAC3B (High Gain -> +24dBu) and a Benchmark AHB2 (Low-Gain = 22 dBu (9.8 Vrms), Gain = 9.2 dB )
• C: Hypex NC400 with 25,8 dB Gain.
• Subs: Rythmik FM8, using dual Ucd Hypex based Amps (2 x 300 W RMS) - I couldn't find any gain specs. But Rythmik says, that full scale 4V can push the front end into clipping.
• All other speakers: Hypex NC 252 with 25,5 dB Gain.

I'd still maximize the gain structure between the pre-out and amp (whether in a sub or not) rather than rely on the calibration tool alone.

 

[Scott Borduin]

Can someone post a picture of the Harman target curve? My dealer keeps "forgetting" to load it on my unit ...

 

[Olli]

Can someone post a picture of the Harman target curve? My dealer keeps "forgetting" to load it on my unit ...

 

[Scott Borduin]

Thanks much Olli!

 

[Olli]

You introduced potentially audible pre-ringing with your phase correction. Unlike GD, with which we live every day, pre-ringing is artificial artifact that doesn't exist in nature so our ears are much more sensitive to it than to GD.

Listen for snare drums, or the ones that go deeper, that should reveal it.

Finally did try a bit - cannot hear any pre-ringing. Either I am not sensible enough or it is not so much of an audible problem as @mitchco just recently concluded (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...20hz-20khz-speakers.17392/page-17#post-615095):

Wrt preringing, this is like the "jitter" bogeyman, often talked about, but never heard ;-) In my DSP book I show how to add increasing amounts of preringing using a FIR filter designer to test ones audibility threshold. It takes gross amounts to become audible with music and one needs to train the ear to hear it. Using percussion as the test signal is the easiest way to hear it. Listen for a ramp up of sound just before the percussion hit.

 

[Olli]

Finally did try a bit - cannot hear any pre-ringing. Either I am not sensible enough or it is not so much of an audible problem as @mitchco just recently concluded (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...20hz-20khz-speakers.17392/page-17#post-615095):

Finally did try a bit - cannot hear any pre-ringing. Either I am not sensible enough or it is not so much of an audible problem as @mitchco just recently concluded (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...20hz-20khz-speakers.17392/page-17#post-615095):

You introduced potentially audible pre-ringing with your phase correction. Unlike GD, with which we live every day, pre-ringing is artificial artifact that doesn't exist in nature so our ears are much more sensitive to it than to GD.

View attachment 65079

Edit: I can hear it. I only checked the Trinnov Setup earlier, but when I compare it with my Audiolense setup, it is obvious.

Before I go into Trial & Error - which parameters of the available Trinnov settings are most helpful to eliminate pre-ringing?

 

[Olli]

Edit: I can hear it. I only checked the Trinnov Setup earlier, but when I compare it with my Audiolense setup, it is obvious.

Before I go into Trial & Error - which parameters of the available Trinnov settings are most helpful to eliminate pre-ringing?

According to Trinnov, pre-ringing is depenedent on "FIR reference" (the lower the less) and "FIR filters lenght" (the lower the less, 300 ms default). I tried and it improved a bit, but it never really disappers. It looks like this is also visible in @DonH56 graphs...

It looks like you cannot really get rid of the pre-ringing, but "more deault" parameters lead to a less optimal FR. I've only taken screenshots for the Center.

"Default"

 

[Dimifoot]

 

[Olli]

View attachment 102029

Wow - super! What settings do you use?