Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)

[mike7877]

I think Topping is having much higher failure rates due to their own quality control issues. Going off the reported issues from many members here, the failures are real.

This is a quote from @MAB in another Topping thread:

"p.s. My A30Pro broke after 9 months, I took it apart and it was riddled with cold-solder and partial-solder joints, had not been cleaned of residue after the board was manufactured, and had incredibly sloppy thermal grease application. So perhaps there are more issues than just the encapsulation."

Topping is to blame for their own problems. If they want to turn things around, then they need to make a more reliable product.

If you think about the market Topping is targeting, it's not bottom-barrel. If you think about what they're asking their engineers to design, it's not bottom-barrel. They seem like they're trying to make good things... Slapping stuff together haphazardly doesn't fit with the rest of what they're doing...

Assembling a DAC isn't highly skilled labour. It's a bit skilled, and in China, people capable of it are literally everywhere. If for some reason this was someone's first electronics assembly gig, after basic training, even someone pretty incapable would become capable enough pretty quick... Repetition for 8+ hours a day every day tends to do that. If they were found to be challenged (inspections of work go bad/QC complains), they'd be reassigned to picking up garbage, or fired.

The problem you're referencing sounds like something was made by an employee in training and then fixed by someone who shouldn't be a supervisor...
People who could (and happily would) do that job right, are extremely common in China.


I'll put it another way too- why would anyone design something so well (as good as anything great and better than the rest), put together everything needed for assembly, order quality components, hire people, and then... in the last 5 minutes... have them crap all over everything, before sending it out? They wouldn't! They're in the business to make money making good things, not return money to customers, pay labour to "refurbish" new products, and sabotage their own reputation!

Their obvious company mission - making really good things for very reasonable prices, is completely contrary to sending out garbage.

Also important to consider: New companies have growing pains. In fact, a lot of them fail. So, when one of them is trying to bring you the products that you want... the products that should be being sold by the existing mega-manufacturers, but the mega-manufacturers aren't selling those products because instead of reinvesting a tiny bit of the money you give them (for their inferior products) into R&D like they should be to make better products for you in the future, they just pocket everything instead and possibly set some aside to fund anti-competitive actions, what you do... what you do is: you buy their products!!! Why? Because they're good, they're warrantied, and the company seems like if you got a visibly defective product and didn't know it until after the warranty period was up, they'd replace it for you.

And this: Most of their DACs for $300-500, you could sell your car and use all the proceeds to buy something from a "well respected" brand and it wouldn't perform as well. Those brands are the brands that should be losing respect and being talked bad about - not the new place trying their best to bring you the best for a reasonable price because they're so new they've yet to purge all their crappy employees.

50% broken at one year is a gross exaggeration. Name one thing as bad

 

[mike7877]

You better look for used LA90 instead all that theory.

What do you mean?

In my post I was talking about new details I heard in a recording I'm very familiar with when using my G5 to drive my really low distortion speakers.

I was making the point that the recording (specifically it was the album Eliminator by ZZ Top) wasn't done as well as I thought it was. Even after all this time and through so much different equipment and combinations of equipment, I was still missing big chunk of the auditory information it contained. Now that I'm aware, my enjoyment of it (even through other audio systems lacking what I can only assume is enough transparency to make the distortion present in the recording apparent) it is slightly reduced.

I made this point because it is a caveat to having ultra-transparent audio equipment that I would have like to know (so others might also? probably). Especially with how many recordings I previously thought were good or very good that aren't actually all that good - it's a lot of them! And not just old stuff either... I don't personally think anyone who reads it will change their buying decisions, but... it's still something to know.

A lot of the problems with new music are hidden with compression. It does a decent job of it, too. It's just been overused though since the early 90s, so much that quality of music has suffered. I'm not saying all new music sucks, far from it. But a lot of stuff that could've been great is only good

 

[Astrofly]

Name one thing as bad

The PA5. The LA90D. The A30Pro. There are multiple reports from users on this forum of issues with these products.

 

[AltoVariago]

I was going to buy a LA90D but I will wait for a quality improvement.

 

[Bach]

I was going to buy a LA90D but I will wait for a quality improvement.

So you are interested and are willing to postphone your buy..
How much time do you want to delay?
How do you measure or interpret a quality improment to motivate you buy decision?

 

[AltoVariago]

So you are interested and are willing to postphone your buy..
How much time do you want to delay?
How do you measure or interpret a quality improment to motivate you buy decision?

I already have a very good amplifier (Accuphase) so I can wait. I want to see a new version and at least many months of utilization without problems. Reliability is crucial.

 

[manisandher]

This thread is getting totally mixed up with the LA90D thread.

If the LA90 meets your power requirements, it's an excellent amplifier. (And I'm not aware of any failures. I have 3 myself.)

 

[mike7877]

The PA5. The LA90D. The A30Pro. There are multiple reports from users on this forum of issues with these products.

Half are broken in a year?

 

[Astrofly]

Half are broken in a year?

I never said half were broken in a year. Here's the text from my post:

"There's a poll thread for the reliability of the LA90 amp. Out of 24 replies, 50% report no issues and 50% report issues, so it seems you are one of the lucky ones."

Let's agree to disagree at this point, since we're not going to convince each other. There's plenty of information for people to read on Topping on this site, so they can make up their mind.

 

[manisandher]

"There's a poll thread for the reliability of the LA90 amp. Out of 24 replies, 50% report no issues and 50% report issues, so it seems you are one of the lucky ones."

Why do you continue to repeat this? It's totally incorrect with respect to the LA90 (original IC version, and the subject of this thread).

 

[Bach]

Why do you continue to repeat this? It's totally incorrect with respect to the LA90 (original IC version, and the subject of this thread).

I feel sorry for those that seem not be able to stick to the subject of this thread.
For general frustration about a brand, they could start a own thread, although this forum contains the word "science" in its name.

 

[Astrofly]

Why do you continue to repeat this? It's totally incorrect with respect to the LA90 (original IC version, and the subject of this thread).

I was responding to a comment about what I actually said, and as such, I used a quote for accuracy. I already replied earlier that you were correct that I had mixed up the LA90 and the LA90D.

To state it further for anyone reading this thread, the aforementioned poll is for the LA90D.

 

[AltoVariago]

This thread is getting totally mixed up with the LA90D thread.

If the LA90 meets your power requirements, it's an excellent amplifier. (And I'm not aware of any failures. I have 3 myself.)

Sorry my fault.

This thread is getting totally mixed up with the LA90D thread.

If the LA90 meets your power requirements, it's an excellent amplifier. (And I'm not aware of any failures. I have 3 mys

 

[Astrofly]

Sorry my fault.

Nah, that's on me. I got things mixed up to start.

 

[mike7877]

I never said half were broken in a year. Here's the text from my post:

Yeah you did. Here's your post (#2,134):

From looking at the reliability of Topping's other products, you've got about 50/50 chance that you paid for a $1k nonfunctioning brick. Instead of making spurious comments about Benchmark, perhaps consider that it takes time, effort, and money to make an actually exceptional product along with offering top notch customer support. Looks like Apollon Audio has a similar price range as Benchmark, and from what I can tell, they too offer great customer service. Topping is rapidly establishing that the only thing they are good at making are products that temporarily measure well before they soon self-destruct and then leaving it to the buyer to try to recoup his losses as best he is able. Please do check back in a year's time (or likely much less) on what a great buy Topping is.

First sentence:
You're saying the odds of me ending up with a "nonfunctioning brick" if I buy an LA90 are... 50/50!
You say this is based on "reliability of Toppings other products".

Second sentence:
You're saying I should "check back in a year (or likely much less)" regarding "what a great buy" Topping is. Sarcastically.
Put the two sentences together and what do you get?

best case:
50/50, in a year, my LA90 will be a nonfunctioning brick.
worst case:
50/50, in much less than a year, my LA90 will be a nonfunctioning brick.


I really gave your statement the benefit of the doubt, and you come back at me with a downright lie lol.


You're right about one thing though, I'm buying an LA90. Am I concerned about it coming DOA or breaking well before it's supposed to? Not really, but a bit. It's a small concern. When it arrives and I test it and it works, that small concern will be a lot smaller. When I open it up and check for obvious (and repairable) defects and find there are none, I'll expect it to last quite a while... 20+ years actually, just like any amplifier.

If my LA90 breaks in 5 years, the circuit is pretty simple and 99% of failures can probably be repaired by a basic technician with really inexpensive parts. Whole thing would probably cost less than shipping a unit to a manufacturer for an otherwise free out of warranty repair (what the best existing manufacturers might do). It's hardly as risky as you portray to buy one. It's a quarter of the price of the Benchmark, two of them running bridge are as powerful and half the price. Saving 50% on the price for this small anxiety is a trade I (and many many others) am prepared to, and going to, make

 

[Astrofly]

Yeah you did. Here's your post (#2,134):


First sentence:
You're saying the odds of me ending up with a "nonfunctioning brick" if I buy an LA90 are... 50/50!
You say this is based on "reliability of Toppings other products".

Second sentence:
You're saying I should "check back in a year (or likely much less)" regarding "what a great buy" Topping is. Sarcastically.
Put the two sentences together and what do you get?

best case:
50/50, in a year, my LA90 will be a nonfunctioning brick.
worst case:
50/50, in much less than a year, my LA90 will be a nonfunctioning brick.


I really gave your statement the benefit of the doubt, and you come back at me with a downright lie lol.


You're right about one thing though, I'm buying an LA90. Am I concerned about it coming DOA or breaking well before it's supposed to? Not really, but a bit. It's a small concern. When it arrives and I test it and it works, that small concern will be a lot smaller. When I open it up and check for obvious (and repairable) defects and find there are none, I'll expect it to last quite a while... 20+ years actually, just like any amplifier.

If my LA90 breaks in 5 years, the circuit is pretty simple and 99% of failures can probably be repaired by a basic technician with really inexpensive parts. Whole thing would probably cost less than shipping a unit to a manufacturer for an otherwise free out of warranty repair (what the best existing manufacturers might do). It's hardly as risky as you portray to buy one. It's a quarter of the price of the Benchmark, two of them running bridge are as powerful and half the price. Saving 50% on the price for this small anxiety is a trade I (and many many others) am prepared to, and going to, make

Good lord. Yes, I said that. I had forgotten I started with it, and I thought you were referencing my statement about the 50/50 poll. It was a mistake, rather than some wily deception hoping that I could fool everyone. I was not trying to "just lie" as you state, but you couldn't help yourself and had to go right for attempting character assassination and try to morally discredit me because I've dared to insult your favorite product.

Regarding the statements you are referencing, no, there is not scientific proof that 50% of Topping products break within a year, so yes, that was taking that poll and other information I've read reported from users on this forum and making that statement. Is it overstated? It may be or may not be. People can read the forum and decide for themselves. I certainly don't think Topping is the wonderful company you imagine. Instead I think they are currently a bad actor who needs to course correct and stop putting out defective products. You can be upset with me as much as you'd like, and you can try to discredit me for making errors, which I have then subsequently acknowledged, but your efforts in that regard won't change what has been reported on this forum.

For the reader of this post who's reading through these comments:
Please do judge for yourself. Look at the larger arc of Topping and decide. Obviously there are diehard supporters on this site, and there are those who regret their purchase. Decide with your wallet.

 

[Astrofly]

You're right about one thing though, I'm buying an LA90. Am I concerned about it coming DOA or breaking well before it's supposed to? Not really, but a bit. It's a small concern. When it arrives and I test it and it works, that small concern will be a lot smaller. When I open it up and check for obvious (and repairable) defects and find there are none, I'll expect it to last quite a while... 20+ years actually, just like any amplifier.

If my LA90 breaks in 5 years, the circuit is pretty simple and 99% of failures can probably be repaired by a basic technician with really inexpensive parts. Whole thing would probably cost less than shipping a unit to a manufacturer for an otherwise free out of warranty repair (what the best existing manufacturers might do). It's hardly as risky as you portray to buy one. It's a quarter of the price of the Benchmark, two of them running bridge are as powerful and half the price. Saving 50% on the price for this small anxiety is a trade I (and many many others) am prepared to, and going to, make

This part is sensible in that I can see the appeal if you have the technical acumen to assess the amp is in need of fixing. The average ASR member probably is much more likely to assess such a thing than a normal consumer. For the normal consumer, I think there is not only the financial aspect but safety concerns. However, since you seem to possess the requisite skills, then I can see how it's a good buy for you.

Back to your prior statement, while I have not tried to lie, I have made mistakes in confusing the LA90 with the LA90D, and in making my argument I have even tripped myself up by not remembering prior remarks. While I did not intend to deceive, I was provocative in my opening statement, and that in turn has led to provocative responses. My apologies in that regard.

From what I can tell, the LA90 seems solid. Let's agree to disagree on some things. All said and done, it's just stuff. Hope your amp gives you the long service you are seeking.

 

[ethanhallbeyer]

How is the SMSL VMV A1 or A2 reliability and quality-wise, since it appears the Topping LA90 has some issues?

 

[Bleib]

How is the SMSL VMV A1 or A2 reliability and quality-wise, since it appears the Topping LA90 has some issues?

It seems its possible that the la90d ha some issues and this one is better..

 

[manisandher]

... since it appears the Topping LA90 has some issues.

The LA90D seems to have some problems, not the original LA90.

Mani.