JSmith
Master Contributor
Everything should be tree fiddy... I always need tree fiddy;What’s $350?
JSmith
Everything should be tree fiddy... I always need tree fiddy;What’s $350?
PA5. equally audibly transparent as LA90, but smaller and less than half the price. also has more (not much) power available (can't be bridged to mono, though)What’s $350?
What’s $350?
What on earth would you be looking at that only puts out 80 clean watts for $3500?Compared to $3500, yes really!
No, not awesome when you can spend this money and get very similar performance and real world power.Compared to $3500, yes really!
The only amplifiers with “real world power” (whatever that means) that come close to the LA90’s noise and distortion measurements are priced in excess of $1000, and the closest one is $3500.No, not awesome when you can spend this money and get very similar performance and real world power.
And people before were complaining that the PA-5 is overpriced.compared to 350$ not really!!
The only amplifiers with “real world power” (whatever that means) that come close to the LA90’s noise and distortion measurements are priced in excess of $1000, and the closest one is $3500
Seems like 2 completely different complaints about 2 different products. Or do you call anything other than complete adulation trolling?And people before were complaining that the PA-5 is overpriced.
Now people are complaining that 80wpc is not enough for them. Really.
Lots of trolling in this thread.
Your example is only 5 dB louder. But I agree with your point. But the options aren’t as prevalent as I would like. Here is a screen capture of the amps over 80 SINAD (my threshold given listening style and need for headroom) that have been reviewed. Is there a $400 to $800 dollar amp that does 150-160 into 8ohms at a reasonable SINAD, flat response, and low distortion across the spectrum? The only one I’m seeing on the list is the Outlaw 2200. It’s frequency response isn’t great, but it gets you 200 watts into 8 ohms and two channels would be about the same cost as the LA90. But if you don’t need the power (and many people don’t since 8/16 watts 4/8 ohms will give you 90 dBSPL at a 2 meter distance with 90db/watt/meter speakers), the LA90 is a bit better in some perhaps audible ways, much better in inaudible ways."real world power" for $800 is more than 80 watts at 4 ohms. Let's call it for arguments sake 120w a channel or greater at 8 ohms. Also let's not forget that even though this amps numbers are incredible (at about 80w) you can't here the difference in distortion between the next bunch of amps on the Sinad chart and this one so I'll gladly take a higher inaudible distortion number to get more power.
"real world power" for $800 is more than 80 watts at 4 ohms. Let's call it for arguments sake 120w a channel or greater at 8 ohms. Also let's not forget that even though this amps numbers are incredible (at about 80w) you can't here the difference in distortion between the next bunch of amps on the Sinad chart and this one so I'll gladly take a higher inaudible distortion number to get more power.
Your example is only 5 dB louder. But I agree with your point. But the options aren’t as prevalent as I would like. Here is a screen capture of the amps over 80 SINAD (my threshold given listening style and need for headroom) that have been reviewed. Is there a $400 to $800 dollar amp that does 150-160 into 8ohms at a reasonable SINAD, flat response, and low distortion across the spectrum? The only one I’m seeing on the list is the Outlaw 2200. It’s frequency response isn’t great, but it gets you 200 watts into 8 ohms and two channels would be about the same cost as the LA90. But if you don’t need the power (and many people don’t since 8/16 watts 4/8 ohms will give you 90 dBSPL at a 2 meter distance with 90db/watt/meter speakers), the LA90 is a bit better in some perhaps audible ways, much better in inaudible ways.
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It's really no effort at all. Yes the specs are incredible. But I would imagine they should be for an $800 32 watt amp. I doubt that any distortion differences above sinad of 90 are audible regardless of how sensitive your speakers and ears are, especially since the distortion your speakers produce will more than make up for it. Everything above that point is for bragging rights. It's got nothing to do with the level of distortion anybody needs. It's all about us not being able to hear it.I'm not sure why you're spending all this effort dissing the Topping LA90, which is a confirmed achievement in low distortion measurements at anywhere near that level of power output at any price, much less sub-$1000 which is unheard of in the audiophile world.
If you don't need or want this kind of insanely low distortion at moderate power, then don't buy it.
As to the implication that nobody would ever need this level of low distortion, well "need" is relative, but there are scenarios you could construct where one could indeed tell the difference (low volume but high sensitivity), though given the huge range involved it's probably rare.
For others maybe this is a "bought a giant pickup truck or sports car but just use it for commuting" case, and while you can laugh about people who "buy more than they need for an application", it's not exactly a huge splurge in this case compared to the various random audiophile buys out there, haha... (says the guy who is seriously thinking of getting an LA90).
I was forgetting those. Ice power builds also show a lot of promise. It would be good to get more reviews of those. Didn’t the VTV have some issues? The review index isn’t working on my phone. Buckeyes’ look like a great bargain. I actually enquired about one, but they were out until August (this was in March). But your right, I personally would go with one of those over the LA90.Obvious answer is the plethora of Hypex NC252MP (~150 W x 2 in to 8 ohm) and NC502MP (~350 W x 2 in to 8 ohm) based amps available for less than $800, offering 95+ dB SINAD at 5 W in to 4 ohm and spec’d stability down to 2 ohm. I would also argue Hypex has a much better reliability track record than Topping.
Michael
While I would mostly agree, it is getting in the Zone of some headphone amps, and as someone who can hear the noise floor on some supposedly low distortion amps, pushing further into the zone of "no-way can we hear distortion or noise" has appeal. Well-made speaker driver units decrease the ... I guess I'll call it the "distortion floor" as the signal goes down. Amps do not, so there are some boundary cases where that low-level noise indeed injects itself in.I doubt that any distortion differences above sinad of 90 are audible regardless of how sensitive your speakers and ears are, especially since the distortion your speakers produce will more than make up for it.
Let's say you're right, for the sake of argument. How often are >$1000, >$5000, >$10000, etc. audiophile things arguably well out of the zone of someone being able to tell the difference? A lot! People still want them sometimes, and the entire market of high-end audio exists for that purpose. There are >$10000 audiophile tube amps that produce only a handful of watts and they get purchased regularly for the properties people want from them. In this case it's really not in that super-costly zone, being still sub-$1000.Everything above that point is for bragging rights. It's got nothing to do with the level of distortion anybody needs. It's all about us not being able to hear it.
Haha, sure. I was just trying to make the example of "buying something you don't need". Maybe a car that has absolutely insanely accurate handling better than super-sports-cars but can only go 60 mph? Haha.Now I don't know who would call an amp that can produce 120w into 8 ohms a "giant pickup truck" in this scenerio. That's a considerable exaggeration. A better comparison would be perhaps a mincooper vs a sedan.
The people who complain the loudest usually gave the least relevant things to say, that’s all. Legitimate criticism is one thing. Ridiculousness is another.Seems like 2 completely different complaints about 2 different products. Or do you call anything other than complete adulation trolling?
That is a legitimate viewpoint. No one is arguing that the noise and distortion performance the LA90 achieves is audible. But to get near its envelope-pushing performance in that area, you need to spend a heck of a lot more than $800, with the notable exception of another Topping product which people similarly slammed for being “too expensive” and “underpowered.”you can't here the difference in distortion between the next bunch of amps on the Sinad chart and this one so I'll gladly take a higher inaudible distortion number to get more power.
There is no practical difference between an 80wpc amp and a 120wpc amp if you are considering power output alone. It can get probably 1-2% louder at maximum volume—I can’t even guess how many dB that is but it’s got to be less than 1dB.It's really no effort at all. Yes the specs are incredible. But I would imagine they should be for an $800 32 watt amp. I doubt that any distortion differences above sinad of 90 are audible regardless of how sensitive your speakers and ears are, especially since the distortion your speakers produce will more than make up for it. Everything above that point is for bragging rights. It's got nothing to do with the level of distortion anybody needs. It's all about us not being able to hear it.
Now I don't know who would call an amp that can produce 120w into 8 ohms a "giant pickup truck" in this scenerio. That's a considerable exaggeration. A better comparison would be perhaps a mincooper vs a sedan.
1.8 dBThere is no practical difference between an 80wpc amp and a 120wpc amp if you are considering power output alone. It can get probably 1-2% louder at maximum volume—I can’t even guess how many dB that is but it’s got to be less than 1dB.