OP
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- #141
Adding on, that makes the cord more flexible (since it is thinner) so less of an aggravation to manage all the wires.
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Topping LA90 Discrete Amplifier Review
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restorer-john
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theREALdotnet
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But not in that colour please!
I don't know if my experience is statistically significant, and I don't have any data on this, but in my journey trough hifi, I don't think a power amp ever failed on me where most other stuff did way more often. Preamps, cd players, radio tuners, turn tables, etc. with the part count way higher, the mechanics, the pots, the switches etc, I would have thought that risk of failure is higher. And yes I also had a computer audio interface die too.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #146
When I used to repair electronics, amplifiers were by far the most common.
Just like with computer security, nothing is reliable, unless it’s proven over time.
Depends on design and parts selection. If it is designed "cost effective", with limited size heatsinks, cheap no-name components especially electrolytic capacitors, not enough output pairs regarding SOA into complex load, then failure may be expected under more difficult conditions. But to make it reliable and bullet proof costs money. As here are tested mostly consumer audio products, we may expect, time after time, troubles like here.
I have similar experience as @PeteL , cannot recall any amplifier failure of the units I have been using during last 20 years, except for consumer class Yamaha AX-396, that became unusable due to output relays and input selector switch, both lost its function.
I think it might be selection bias on some people's parts... like some owners seem to hold 'affection' (for want of a better word) towards amps (i guess) so they are happy to repair them
does anyone care too much for CD players where the sled (laser?) might be the most frequently failed part and so it might get dumped?
in the modern era we know about Onkyo's HDMI thing and I always hear of Marantz and Denon failures of a variety of levels... again might be a bit of selection bias but if its a power amp they should be pretty reliable as there's no moving parts and as long as good components are used and heat is moved away then the things should last a lifetime?
of course when you move to amps with type-c ports for firmware update (!!!) then there's more considerations... and here we often hear of people running Aiyima A07s with hot psus and they break then but for sub $100 devices.???
does anyone care too much for CD players where the sled (laser?) might be the most frequently failed part and so it might get dumped?
in the modern era we know about Onkyo's HDMI thing and I always hear of Marantz and Denon failures of a variety of levels... again might be a bit of selection bias but if its a power amp they should be pretty reliable as there's no moving parts and as long as good components are used and heat is moved away then the things should last a lifetime?
of course when you move to amps with type-c ports for firmware update (!!!) then there's more considerations... and here we often hear of people running Aiyima A07s with hot psus and they break then but for sub $100 devices.???
Sokel
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The horror scenario about amps is not the device itself but what comes after.Speakers are not an easy fix.
So,two things:
Best possible protection through quality components and such a design that even if it fails to stop the damage at the outputs.
Everything else comes way after that on my book.
So,two things:
Best possible protection through quality components and such a design that even if it fails to stop the damage at the outputs.
Everything else comes way after that on my book.
Yesterday, I asked the question on another thread why the Topping PA5 was still being recommended on the original review page (I was considering ordering one until I learned of the failures) considering what appears to have a pretty bad track of reliability. Someone on that thread couldn't answer my question directly but did provide this disclaimer that appears at the end of this amplifier review.
Now, I'm a pretty casual lurker on this forum, but I've never seen anything like this here or on other review/discussion forums. How can a product receive a high recommendation for its performance and then have this disclaimer attached to it? Would this be acceptable for Benchmark or Purifi amplifiers? Or Parasound and Crown amplifiers for that matter?
I think I can appreciate the intent of this disclaimer because of voltages involved, but I doubt that most commercial amplifier companies have more than a 1 or 2% failure rates of their amplifiers in the field in the first 5 years. Is Topping getting a pass here on amplifier reliability because they measure well? Shouldn't they be required to meet the same reliability standards as other companies being recommended here even if it means a slightly higher cost to build it?
If Topping can design an amplifier that measures this well, it seems to me they can also design it to last trouble free for a reasonable period of time like other appliances in our homes (10-15 years?). No piece of audio equipment getting a recommendation here should be receiving a disclaimer like this about potential reliability issues, imo.
For the sake of argument, I would suggest mechanical components in our systems are the most prone or likely for failure, before amplifiers. Reel to reel tape decks, cd transports, and turntables probably have a higher service/failure rate than commercially made amplifiers.
No flames at Topping, I have and enjoy daily a DX7 Pro dac, which btw has been trouble free since I purchased it new several years ago.
I was stunned to see this disclaimer and now 3 or 4 pages into this review nobody has mentioned it.
Now, I'm a pretty casual lurker on this forum, but I've never seen anything like this here or on other review/discussion forums. How can a product receive a high recommendation for its performance and then have this disclaimer attached to it? Would this be acceptable for Benchmark or Purifi amplifiers? Or Parasound and Crown amplifiers for that matter?
I think I can appreciate the intent of this disclaimer because of voltages involved, but I doubt that most commercial amplifier companies have more than a 1 or 2% failure rates of their amplifiers in the field in the first 5 years. Is Topping getting a pass here on amplifier reliability because they measure well? Shouldn't they be required to meet the same reliability standards as other companies being recommended here even if it means a slightly higher cost to build it?
If Topping can design an amplifier that measures this well, it seems to me they can also design it to last trouble free for a reasonable period of time like other appliances in our homes (10-15 years?). No piece of audio equipment getting a recommendation here should be receiving a disclaimer like this about potential reliability issues, imo.
For the sake of argument, I would suggest mechanical components in our systems are the most prone or likely for failure, before amplifiers. Reel to reel tape decks, cd transports, and turntables probably have a higher service/failure rate than commercially made amplifiers.
No flames at Topping, I have and enjoy daily a DX7 Pro dac, which btw has been trouble free since I purchased it new several years ago.
Sokel
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I think that all this does not come down to a failure alone,which can happen to every amp but to the difficulty,cost and wait-time of service.
It would be a whole different conversation if they had couple of repair centers in Europe and USA and I'm talking about all these kind of companies.
Some friend above said something about 120$ cost to post back it's faulty unit under warranty.
That's a big no-go for some people.
JeremyFife
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Thank you for the review, which I found to be thought provoking.
Technically superb, class leading in some aspects. Some concerns about real-world behaviour and a bit of debate about new-fangled vs old-school design ethos. I like the aesthetics, reliability is yet to be demonstrated (I have a repaired Topping PA5, but that doesn't mean that the LA90 has any issues).
What puzzles me is why this has multiple inputs and a manual volume control i.e. why does it operate as a very basic integrated amp?
I can see the attraction of hooking up a Turntable and a DAC (plus point for multiple inputs) ... but I'd be restricted to having my amp and my seat and my turntable all in the same place and that means I'd want a remote control for volume.
Going digital only and it's more confusing ... most DACs will accept multiple inputs and offer a volume control (yeah, that's a preamp) so the volume on the LA90 becomes a gain control, or a safety net in case you turn on your source with the volume at max.
A single LA90 is pretty but doesn't have the features or the power for the money (IMO)
The LA90 shouts that it should really be used bridged, but then there is absolutely no use for multiple inputs or for volume control ... it's a Power Amp in this configuration.
Make it a proper integrated amp; add a DAC, a headphone stage and remote control and it would be very interesting.
or
Make it a proper power amp; single input, no volume, perhaps look at that behaviour around going into protection, ensure the build is robust. Also becomes very interesting.
It's clever, and interesting but I don't think I understand.
Technically superb, class leading in some aspects. Some concerns about real-world behaviour and a bit of debate about new-fangled vs old-school design ethos. I like the aesthetics, reliability is yet to be demonstrated (I have a repaired Topping PA5, but that doesn't mean that the LA90 has any issues).
What puzzles me is why this has multiple inputs and a manual volume control i.e. why does it operate as a very basic integrated amp?
I can see the attraction of hooking up a Turntable and a DAC (plus point for multiple inputs) ... but I'd be restricted to having my amp and my seat and my turntable all in the same place and that means I'd want a remote control for volume.
Going digital only and it's more confusing ... most DACs will accept multiple inputs and offer a volume control (yeah, that's a preamp) so the volume on the LA90 becomes a gain control, or a safety net in case you turn on your source with the volume at max.
A single LA90 is pretty but doesn't have the features or the power for the money (IMO)
The LA90 shouts that it should really be used bridged, but then there is absolutely no use for multiple inputs or for volume control ... it's a Power Amp in this configuration.
Make it a proper integrated amp; add a DAC, a headphone stage and remote control and it would be very interesting.
or
Make it a proper power amp; single input, no volume, perhaps look at that behaviour around going into protection, ensure the build is robust. Also becomes very interesting.
It's clever, and interesting but I don't think I understand.
I did purchase a Topping A90D at release even that the same warning was at the end of the review. I never had an issue with my A90D but due the "popping noise" issues reported by many, took me a while to sell mine, not to mention that I had to lower the price down to almost 50% of what I paid. Lesson learned for me and from now on, I only purchase equipment from companies that walk the extra mile for you, including good warranty and customer support with no hidden fees or additional costs while asking for an in warranty repairs.
Like the switching. It should have a remote, however.
How I interpret these reviews is purely technical. Not about all the other stuff around it. Even taking price into account is a debate. For me the panther only shows technical performance, nothing else.
I agree with many that the amp is in a weird spot... make it a full integrated or a full power amp. Right now I feel its best suited as power amp but then it annoys me a bit that I will 'pay' for the multiple inputs and volume control.
I do love the looks and performance tough! Would love for topping to complement all their 'stacks/formfactors' with a decent amp. I don't care if they use of the shelve hypex amp for that purpose.
I wouldn't recommend PA5 to anyone at this point, not even purchasing used although mine worked perfectly fine. But I wouldn't be too concerned with LA90D either as the previous version appears to work fine.
Topping should have handled PA5 better, I think many are quite, well, VERY disappointed with their purchases, and I do hope they do not repeat the mistake with PA7.
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