Topping LA90 Discrete Amplifier Review

[AaronJ]

I am not worried about the long term prospects of this one amplifier per se. I am concerned by how quickly Topping churns out newer and newer products that supplant older ones in an absurdly short life cycle. That is an alarming way to do business.

The performance seems amazing, but only time will reveal the value of “best initial quality” award brands like Chevy like to tout.

 

[tomchris]

As an aside, I have $50,000 worth of amplifiers sitting off due to failure. According to the company support, I need to ship these 120 pound amplifiers to some place in Los Angeles (?) for them to fix it. Heaven knows how much they are going to charge. Or how I am supposed to crate these back up to ship to them. I was hoping to fix them myself but I can't even figure out how to open the darn box!

Counting brackets, I believe, that you need to remove around 16 bolts from each heatsink in order to remove them and get to the internals.

 

[restorer-john]

I am not worried about the long term prospects of this one amplifier per se. I am concerned by how quickly Topping churns out newer and newer products that supplant older ones in an absurdly short life cycle. That is an alarming way to do business.

At the peak of the Japanese assault on worldwide domination in high fidelity, entire product lineups were changed once per year, every year. Unbelievable really.

Every cassette deck, tuner, turntable, amplifier, speaker range with sometimes huge numbers in each category would be updated, replaced or changed. Only a small number would continue to the next catalogue.

The biggest of them all, Matsushita, in 1985 had a lineup which comprised (my count) in the Oceania catalogue alone:
6 compact disc players
9 integrated amplifiers
2 preamplifiers
2 power amplifiers
6 tuners
6 receiver
6 various equalizers
1 analyzer
28 different turntables
3 separate tonearms
13 phono cartridges
17 cassette decks
2 RTR decks
2 microphones
19 pairs of speakers
1 compact system
and
3 pairs of headphones

Here's a page 2 range beauty shot:

Topping is tiny by comparsion and needs to stay relevant with their customers. They need fresh products in the marketplace on a regular basis if they are going to capture and keep the attention of retailers and buyers. Updating the LA-90 (Which I believe would be a poor seller at best) is a good idea, especially if some improvements were made.

 

[restorer-john]

As an aside, I have $50,000 worth of amplifiers sitting off due to failure. According to the company support, I need to ship these 120 pound amplifiers to some place in Los Angeles (?) for them to fix it. Heaven knows how much they are going to charge. Or how I am supposed to crate these back up to ship to them. I was hoping to fix them myself but I can't even figure out how to open the darn box!

You really should get hold of the service manual and schematics before it's too late. You've been putting off doing something for several years now. Soon they will be just boat anchors.

 

[amirm]

You really should get hold of the service manual and schematics before it's too late. You've been putting off doing something for several years now. Soon they will be just boat anchors.

I have been afraid of asking only to be told they won't hand them out. But yes, need to do that....

 

[enricoclaudio]

It was actually mentioned. That aside, the disclaimer was put in there to avoid the very discussion you triggered. I have zero evidence of this amplifier having reliability issues. I pounded it hard over and over again with my new reactive load to clipping and beyond. It stood those tests completely. I put the disclaimer in there still because people like to immediately chime in the review of Topping amps to complain about reliability issues of other products from the company. With me acknowledging that, I was hoping to keep that tired argument out of every review thread. It is unfair and improper to claim every amplifier Topping makes is going to have problem.

As an aside, I have $50,000 worth of amplifiers sitting off due to failure. According to the company support, I need to ship these 120 pound amplifiers to some place in Los Angeles (?) for them to fix it. Heaven knows how much they are going to charge. Or how I am supposed to crate these back up to ship to them. I was hoping to fix them myself but I can't even figure out how to open the darn box!

So yes, amplifiers are a source of failures in an audio system. It doesn't matter who makes them. They are much more likely to fail given the heat, current and voltages they deal with.

Agree 100%. Life span in amplifiers is real. I'm currently experiencing this phenomenon. I have a stereo array of Meyer Sound M2Ds speakers in the main worship center at the church I work for since 2011. Each array has 5 x M2Ds speakers. Each speaker used to cost around $20K back in 2006, so total we are talking about $200K worth of speakers. Those Meyer Sound arrays were purchased back in 2007 and manufacture date was 09/2006. At the end of last year 1 UX amp module failed. I got a replacement module directly from Meyer Sound for $1500. Then in January 2023 another UX amp module failed, so ordered a second one. Last month 2 x UX amp modules failed as well. Called Meyer Sound and ordered 5 x UX amp modules. Long story short, these amps reached their life cycle after 18 years of use so most likely during this year all UX amp modules are going to be replaced with new ones. Now look at this, Meyer Sound still provides support for a speaker that was discontinued about 12 years ago and purchased 18 years ago. That is what I call Customer Support for life.

2006 UX Amp Module:

2023 UX Amp Module:

 

[Peternz]

If Topping makes these with just an on off switch and RCA inputs they will sell truckloads.

The Benchmark power amplifier is popular because it has high performance and no nonsense. This amplifier is high performance with nonsense like the volume control and the unusual connectors on the back. Since the amplifier would probably be cheaper without those things and it would probably sell better it is hard to fathom why they designed it like this.

 

[Rusty]

...That aside, the disclaimer was put in there to avoid the very discussion you triggered. I have zero evidence of this amplifier having reliability issues...

Neither do I. And I did not imply this amplifier is/will be problematic. My issue is with the disclaimer.

The disclaimer you wrote is generic. You will need to post it to all amplifier reviews now as all amplifiers have heat and high voltage to deal with. Essentially, what you've said is " All amplifiers are prone to failure. If you're a nervous Nelly, don't buy an amplifier until you're sure it's reliable." Shouldn't reliability be expected with this equipment?

What would have been more appropriate is to have said something like "I'm giving this amplifier my highest recommendation with the caveat that as many here know, some Topping products have had reliability issues over the past couple of years. If this amplifier (or any component I review) has reliability issues in the future I may choose to remove it from my recommended components list, but until such time it's highly recommended."

I'm not sure if you appreciate the difference in approach, but I would not have posted if you had said something more like my example. Your disclaimer seemed inappropriate. No flames at you personally, I appreciate the activity of the forum. I do think there was a better way to handle the disclaimer. There's no reason not to acknowledge that Topping has apparently had some reliability and service issues.

I am still curious why the PA5 has the highest recommendation even considering the failure/service issues. Many, many people make buying decisions based solely on your recommendations (both new and used). That feels like a tremendous responsibility.

 

[blueone]

I am still curious why the PA5 has the highest recommendation even considering the failure/service issues. Many, many people make buying decisions based solely on your recommendations (both new and used). That feels like a tremendous responsibility.

That's not really fair to Amir. He can't be expected to find and keep track of reliability data for every product he tests. Amir's reviews are valuable input to a subscriber's decision process, but it is unreasonable to think a review can be extended to cover long-term issues.

 

[Rusty]

...Now look at this, Meyer Sound still provides support for a speaker that was discontinued about 12 years ago and purchased 18 years ago. That is what I call Customer Support for life.

That is exceptional customer support. The Meyer Sound products are quite expensive but many companies sell expensive equipment and no longer support it long term. JBL for example.

That's not really fair to Amir. He can't be expected to find and keep track of reliability data for every product he tests. Amir's reviews are valuable input to a subscriber's decision process, but it is unreasonable to think a review can be extended to cover long-term issues.

I would respectfully disagree, and I'm not trolling you or Amir. I'm not talking about companies with a normal failure rate. There's actually a thread here polling members about issues with the PA5 reliability and things like having to pay return shipping for warranty service. That's unusual, and seems worthy of consideration for not recommending the amplifier to members?

 

[Rottmannash]

That is not a feeling that you and I share. Topping has put out some garbage products and they don't have a good track record of following through on their promises.

Look at the @TOPPING-Service account... lots of talk, but no action - at least for me. So as amir said, if you're worried about quality, stay away from new topping amps.

Did @amirm say that??

 

[Rottmannash]

I'm hesitating to give it a thumbs up before I see a year of sales without many reports about units failing. I do really hope they got their act together and improved testing and reliability. If so, I wish them nothing but success.

I didn't know we were voting for future potential reliability issues. How can one know such a thing? I vote based on the measurements only. The rest...only time will tell.

 

[Rottmannash]

Agree 100%. Life spam in amplifiers is real. I'm currently experiencing this phenomenon. I have a stereo array of Meyer Sound M2Ds speakers in the main worship center at the church I work for since 2011. Each array has 5 x M2Ds speakers. Each speaker used to cost around $20K back in 2006, so total we are talking about $200K worth of speakers. Those Meyer Sound arrays were purchased back in 2007 and manufacture date was 09/2006. At the end of last year 1 UX amp module failed. I got a replacement module directly from Meyer Sound for $1500. Then in January 2023 another UX amp module failed, so ordered a second one. Last month 2 x UX amp modules failed as well. Called Meyer Sound and ordered 5 x UX amp modules. Long story short, these amps reached their life cycle after 18 years of use so most likely during this year all UX amp modules are going to be replaced with new ones. Now look at this, Meyer Sound still provides support for a speaker that was discontinued about 12 years ago and purchased 18 years ago. That is what I call Customer Support for life.

2006 UX Amp Module:

View attachment 278927

2023 UX Amp Module:

View attachment 278928

wow-that's some service. I wonder how old those modules are? The new ones, that is?

 

[PeteL]

I do think it is fair from Amir or other that the data we have can't tell us that this particular model is more prone to failure than any other amp. Not with the suite of tests performed here, but as customers, yes this is entering a pricing territory where of course warranty terms and ease of support becomes crucial, especially since when used for non desktop/nearfield or extremely sensitive speakers applications, decent power require 2 of those. I am really not sure I would clearly hear a big difference in sound quality between this and the Schiit Vidar at exactly the same price, They may very well both be transparent in relation to the speakers output, but it's for an other debate. I am however fully sure in my use case and being north American that having 2.5 times the power will be beneficial and audible at highish volume, and that 5 years warranty makes it an obvious no contest. Piece of mind matters.

 

[James Romeyn]

I havent every looked at Topping amps but it would make sense to release this as a pure power amp (with the mono/stereo and gain switches but one input and no volume control).

Does/will such a beast exist?

Peter

LA90D already has straight power amp function. A dedicated straight power amp splits 1 model sales into 2 models, needlessly resulting in some lost sales with lack of stock of the needed model and less overall profits in spite of less parts needed in the straight power amp model. They straight power amp would require the same price which to consumers makes no sense and would look like Topping was wrong, greedy and/or stupid.

It will never happen.

 

[James Romeyn]

Why no remote control? That makes it a big no-no for me and many others I reckon.

It's marketed as a desktop amp. As Amir stated, use a remote DAC.

 

[PeteL]

LA90D already has straight power amp function. A dedicated straight power amp splits 1 model sales into 2 models, needlessly resulting in some lost sales with lack of stock of the needed model and less overall profits in spite of less parts needed in the straight power amp model. They straight power amp would require the same price which to consumers makes no sense and would look like Topping was wrong, greedy and/or stupid.

It will never happen.

That's a lot of assumptions... There's a lot Topping can chose to do and not do. Mainly the volume they sell can tell us if a redesign more simple would still be at the same cost. It's not huge tooling and connectors, switches and volume controls are quite way up there in BOM cost drivers. They already have tons of products that eat each others market share, In the end it's the total count that matters, they wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable. The thing is, do topping want to step out and cross over a bit beyond desktop products, because that clearly is. A volume control like this with no remotes has to be at arms lengths, and if you don't need it, well, you don't need this product and you'll go for a real power amp that will not be made by Topping at the moment. Now as a pure power amp, more power would probably be wise, but in all case "It will never happen" You have to be an insider to know that and I do not agree with your cost evaluation.

 

[James Romeyn]

Of course all you newbies will be using sources with balanced outputs, but what of us oldies with some single ended RCA sources? I seem to recall the previous model was truly hobbled when used that way via properly configured interconnects...

Designer Bruno Putzeys said he spent a long time perfecting the fully balanced differential input of Hypex NCore NC400 and there is sum total 1 ideal/proper method to connect an unbalanced source:
Unbalanced source RCA output > RCA to XLR convertor (as close as possible to the source) > balanced XLR IC > NC400 balanced XLR input

(Hard-wire RCA-M to the source end of a balanced XLR IC to eliminate one each XLR male and female plug.)

Bruno said the above method approaches the performance of a fully balanced source. Bruno provided an RCA input option solely for persons who demand it but said there is never a good reason to use that option.

I made about 100 NC400s, both stereo and bridged 1200W versions.

 

[James Romeyn]

That's a lot of assumptions... There's a lot Topping can chose to do and not do. Mainly the volume they sell can tell us if a redesign more simple would still be at the same cost. It's not huge tooling and connectors, switches and volume controls are quite way up there in BOM cost drivers. They already have tons of products that eat each others market share, In the end it's the total count that matters, they wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable. The thing is, do topping want to step out and cross over a bit beyond desktop products, because that clearly is. A volume control like this with no remotes has to be at arms lengths, and if you don't need it, well, you don't need this product and you'll go for a real power amp that will not be made by Topping at the moment. Now as a pure power amp, more power would probably be wise, but in all case "It will never happen" You have to be an insider to know that and I do not agree with your cost evaluation.

With all due respect I have manufacturing experience with NXT for a product Gigatek made and won a music industry award @ NAMM. I "assumed" nothing. Everything I posted is accurate. State specifically what I assumed that is inaccurate. I have a contact @ Topping in Asia. I can't say for a fact it won't happen but I'd bet even money any day. You have no idea at these numbers how insanely high is the cost for one minute change.

 

[PeteL]

Bruno said the above method approaches the performance of a fully balanced source. Bruno provided an RCA input option solely for persons who demand it but said there is never a good reason to use that option.

Never a good reason? I am not sure if it is is exact quote, but there may never be a good performance reason, but if your source is RCA, not having to purchase adapters is a darn good reason, what else are you going to do? And if it can be done in a cable "close to the source" , I am quite certain that he managed to do it right internally just as well no?