Topping E30 II DAC Review

[raif71]

It was a big discussion. But the fact that d10 balanced didn't sell very well(way less than d10s) speaks a lot. I mean many of you guys do what such device but in the end the original e30 was still going pretty well and sticking with what we know works should work. Fixing the issues, adding another chip, better performance for the same price...

Actually I like it like this. If you would opt for balanced then the L30II would have to be balanced as well for a matching pair.

 

[juliangst]

And it needs AC power.
I would extremely prefer it to be USB(-c) powered. (like the d10 is)

If you specifically want a dac that has toslink and coax Inputs it will need external power (Except my SMSL Sanskrit 10 it accepts auxiliary power but doesn’t need it)

 

[raest]

There’s a lot of “data” on @JohnYang1997 ’s post about what they have done (increased warranty period) and still trying to remedy the situation. That’s not the behaviour of a manufacturer leaving customers in the cold.

Bombastic writing shouldn’t skew reality.

ah yes... increasing the warranty period to the already EU minimum is such a nice gesture that shows great care for the customer... lol

and the only things they tried so far has been a failure to find the issue

We always measure every board on AP once bare board once complete unit. Even for the modules we measure twice for each. And there are random inspection and listening tests on top of that. I did say this is in our small "hifi" industry. I don't know any other company in our industry that does this. For other fields I'm sure there will be other who do better. Most don't even have apx555 and we have two of them for the production line and two for r&d. We make sure every unit perform exactly the way we want it to be. Also every unit of ours basically have to meet our specifications that we published. And all the test conditions are given. If you look at other company's test graphs, many, even the shown graphs don't meet the spec.

i get it man. i totally do. i'm actually one of the, unfortunately, few who understand that for you (and Topping in general) "quality == how high does it score on Amir's AP test suite", and nothing more. no reliability, thermals, ergonomics/usability etc

that's why i totally believe you that Topping, a company that has only recently started doing stress tests, "has the most advanced QC in hifi"

i guess that's also why my 2nd PA5, barely over 2 months old but with mere hours of actual use (since it was "relegated" to my wife's office, and she started using it only last week after her pregnancy leave "expired") has already started to develop the same issue

that's what "the most advanced QC hifi" gets me, the customer, these days apparently... not the obviously lesser QC of my decades old Marantz amp that started being defective only after 20 (or more) years of daily use (including a couple of years of being left on [not just plugged in, but actually turned on] 24/7) and will be an easy repair for any local dude

 

[Trell]

I'm just stating that you cannot simply use the amount of public complaints to make a call about failure rates.

As a consumer this is so very often all we have available. Naturally people use these anecdotes when deciding to buy something. I do, but I also keep in mind the total numbers of devices sold, type of fault, and very importantly how customer support and service worked for them.

I do know that statistically every manufactures will have devices that fails for various reasons.

 

[Dogcoop]

@amirm I would love to see a blind/abx test of the DAVE vs. the Topping pair of E30 ll and L30 ll. They are both dac and headphone amp. I know that comparing a $300 dac/amp combo with a $14,000 DAVE sounds absurd on the face of it, but we know which measures better. I would love to know if in a blind test you would hear a $13,700 difference.

 

[Jim Shaw]

Has anyone found the E30 II for sale? I haven't.

I answer my own question; it just showed up on Amazon. Note, not available with Prime delivery, but rather shipped free from Topping, taking several weeks.

 

[MCH]

BTW, I tried to develop a test for jitter lock. In all but one narrow case, AP could not create jitter high enough to cause the few DACs I tested to lose lock. I need to get my hands on a source that shows this kind of problem to see what it is doing. Is there a cheap one I could buy?

Yes, this with d30pro at least:

Sony DVP-SR760H DVD-Player/CD player

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B007ECGFLU?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

btw, my samsung tv (as someone suggested) works perfectly

 

[delta76]

I answer my own question; it just showed up on Amazon. Note, not available with Prime delivery, but rather shipped free from Topping, taking several weeks.View attachment 220745

Sounds like shipping from China

 

[nagster]

It was a big discussion. But the fact that d10 balanced didn't sell very well(way less than d10s) speaks a lot.

It's a shame despite a good USB DAC.
Balanced output, high performance, low price and USB input is a good combination. Moreover, it is bus-powered.
Since my PC system is for PC only, there is no problem even if it is for USB input only. There will be many such people.
However, it may have been important not to be able to make an unbalanced connection. Well, I can say as much as I want later.
Weirdos like me buy both D10 balanced and D10s and use them according to the connection destination, but for normal users, if the DAC has a balanced output, they may also want an unbalanced output. . (Even if they don't use it after all)

 

[Koeitje]

As a consumer this is so very often all we have available. Naturally people use these anecdotes when deciding to buy something. I do, but I also keep in mind the total numbers of devices sold, type of fault, and very importantly how customer support and service worked for them.

I do know that statistically every manufactures will have devices that fails for various reasons.

I'm not dying the importance of consumer reviews, especially with regard to actual functionality and bugs these are important. If a random DAC drops sound randomly when feeding it 48/24 and multiple people confirm it then it's an issue. But simply looking at people complaining about broken devices doesn't help anyone. And sure there are certain products that have issues that have even been confirmed by the manufacturer, but that does not mean all their products are garbage. I can refer to Apple yet again. They have had so many different problems with specific products, but those cases are not representative of Apple as a whole (I can't share numbers, don't want to run into NDA problems).

The big issue I have that caused me to start this rant in the first place is the statement that this is all caused because it's made in China and that because labour is cheaper there it can't simply be good quality. Honestly, I have more faith in SMSL and Topping than I have in Schiit for example. And don't get me started on brands that design broken products.

 

[bambadoo]

You missed the whole discussion about lax filters for better pass-through and yet no issue when playing back music. The AKM chip does not have a so-called brickwall filter.

Thanks. Would you be so kind providing link(s) to the whole discussion? I sure missed that.
Just came across their "philosophy" regarding filters.

Meister's Tutorial 01 | STORIES | VELVET SOUND | AKM - Asahi Kasei Microdevices

MEISTER, Words from the Audio Meister, The creation of VELVET SOUND

velvetsound.akm.com

 

[Trell]

It's a shame despite a good USB DAC.
Balanced output, high performance, low price and USB input is a good combination. Moreover, it is bus-powered.
Since my PC system is for PC only, there is no problem even if it is for USB input only. There will be many such people.
However, it may have been important not to be able to make an unbalanced connection. Well, I can say as much as I want later.
Weirdos like me buy both D10 balanced and D10s and use them according to the connection destination, but for normal users, if the DAC has a balanced output, they may also want an unbalanced output. . (Even if they don't use it after all)

For its measured performance, features (like a remote) and connectivity along with a very low price, it's an excellent buy for many (most?). Topping do have to make a profit, after all.

 

[sarumbear]

I answer my own question; it just showed up on Amazon. Note, not available with Prime delivery, but rather shipped free from Topping, taking several weeks

For the attention of EU and UK buyers.

Amazon is often not the seller. (60% of their sales are 3rd party.) As a shipper Amazon does not have to honour any guarantees you legally have. Check who the seller is and if they are EU or UK resident if warranty is important for you. In EU and UK it is the seller who is responsible for warrantees.

 

[JohnYang1997]

It's a shame despite a good USB DAC.
Balanced output, high performance, low price and USB input is a good combination. Moreover, it is bus-powered.
Since my PC system is for PC only, there is no problem even if it is for USB input only. There will be many such people.
However, it may have been important not to be able to make an unbalanced connection. Well, I can say as much as I want later.
Weirdos like me buy both D10 balanced and D10s and use them according to the connection destination, but for normal users, if the DAC has a balanced output, they may also want an unbalanced output. . (Even if they don't use it after all)

Hmm there's E50, I know it's a lot more expensive in comparison but that's probably the best that we can do. We give a lot of cuts to the authorized resellers so that can give you great customer service. And honestly, knowing some resellers give large resistance to the customers it is not making me very happy. Luckily there still are great ones like, Audiophonics, Addicted to audio, Apos for different parts of the world.

 

[JohnYang1997]

For the attention of EU and UK buyers.

Amazon is often not the seller. (60% of their sales are 3rd party.) As a shipper Amazon does not have to honour any guarantees you legally have. Check who the seller is and if they are EU or UK resident if warranty is important for you.

Go for the fulfilled by Amazon links. That way you'd get all the benefits from Amazon.

 

[Trell]

I'm not dying the importance of consumer reviews, especially with regard to actual functionality and bugs these are important. If a random DAC drops sound randomly when feeding it 48/24 and multiple people confirm it then it's an issue. But simply looking at people complaining about broken devices doesn't help anyone. And sure there are certain products that have issues that have even been confirmed by the manufacturer, but that does not mean all their products are garbage. I can refer to Apple yet again. They have had so many different problems with specific products, but those cases are not representative of Apple as a whole (I can't share numbers, don't want to run into NDA problems).

The big issue I have that caused me to start this rant in the first place is the statement that this is all caused because it's made in China and that because labour is cheaper there it can't simply be good quality. Honestly, I have more faith in SMSL and Topping than I have in Schiit for example. And don't get me started on brands that design broken products.

I was just commenting on the publically available data of failures for a consumer making a choice on what to buy, and for sure they don't have your insider insight. That's all.

 

[Sukie]

Go for the fulfilled by Amazon links. That way you'd get all the benefits from Amazon.

Amazon are still not the seller, under EU and UK law (don't know about other countries). Amazon are responsible for fulfilment and offer their A-Z Guarantee. They are not responsible for warranty issues in the way that they are if you buy directly from them. The complications of 3rd party selling!

 

[sarumbear]

Go for the fulfilled by Amazon links. That way you'd get all the benefits from Amazon.

Here’s the confirmation.

We also handle all customer service and product returns for "Fulfilled by Amazon" items.

Fulfilled by Amazon - Amazon Customer Service

Items

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[delta76]

For the attention of EU and UK buyers.

Amazon is often not the seller. (60% of their sales are 3rd party.) As a shipper Amazon does not have to honour any guarantees you legally have. Check who the seller is and if they are EU or UK resident if warranty is important for you. In EU and UK it is the seller who is responsible for warrantees.

They don't have to. But if the seller does not fulfill their duty, they will very likely intervene. They are not shy from punishing sellers.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I'm not dying the importance of consumer reviews, especially with regard to actual functionality and bugs these are important. If a random DAC drops sound randomly when feeding it 48/24 and multiple people confirm it then it's an issue. But simply looking at people complaining about broken devices doesn't help anyone. And sure there are certain products that have issues that have even been confirmed by the manufacturer, but that does not mean all their products are garbage. I can refer to Apple yet again. They have had so many different problems with specific products, but those cases are not representative of Apple as a whole (I can't share numbers, don't want to run into NDA problems).

The big issue I have that caused me to start this rant in the first place is the statement that this is all caused because it's made in China and that because labour is cheaper there it can't simply be good quality. Honestly, I have more faith in SMSL and Topping than I have in Schiit for example. And don't get me started on brands that design broken products.

Let me explain a bit. The dreaded issue with spdif inputs on our D30pro, E30(later version) was due to the spdif chip we used, CS8416. Normally you don't get these drop outs if there's no compatibility issue with your other devices. We did used to use the chip without complaints in the past. But in the end using the chip to replace AK4118(was done for due to fire at AKM factory) is really not a good idea.

We have since dropped using CS8416 despite that we gathered a lot of stock during the shortage. There is still minor issues with the spdif input on D90se for example but it behaves much nicer with much better compatibility in our tests.

And because people always said they rather it working than having pretty jitter graph so we tried our best to make it as compatible as possible while not sacrificing performance too much this time with E30 II.

I haven't seen issues with USB input in general.