Quality of Raspberry Pi4 USB For Streaming

[watchnerd]

Similarly there are server side EQ plugins for LMS so the endpoint doesn't need to do the EQ. Having said that, Moode's EQ is meant to work with its squeezelite endpoint out of the box.

This seems like the better architecture.

Run the heavy compute stuff on the remote server, which has far more computing horsepower.

This lets me keep the higher heat, higher noise CPUs out of the listening room entirely.

 

[somebodyelse]

This seems like the better architecture.

Run the heavy compute stuff on the remote server, which has far more computing horsepower.

This lets me keep the higher heat, higher noise CPUs out of the listening room entirely.

It depends on the 'server' - LMS needs few resources by modern standards, so can run on things that may not be up to the job of doing EQ, especially for more than one endpoint. Think of cheap NAS drives from a decade ago, or an OG Pi. I used to run it (among other things) on a fanless Via EPIA board (500MHz) until the perl modules started needing an instruction that it didn't have. Compared to those a Pi 4 is a powerhouse and has more than enough grunt to run the EQ - even a Pi Zero 2 W should be able to do that as a stereo endpoint.

 

[ctakim]

The hifiberry DAC2 HD is the one I use on two RPi streamers even though the difference between that and the 'not that good' ~£15 DAC HATs is probably not audible. It's only £40 plus shipping so what sort of good external DAC is cheaper than that?

I have another question about using RPi4 with an external DAC. Can the DAC be powered by the RPi to save on wall warts for a tidier solution? I'm definitely going to use an Rpi streamer with an external DAC, probably in the form of a Minidsp Flex and I want to minimise cables and wall sockets used. With each speaker and sub needing a socket as well that can be a number of sockets in use! It also looks like I definitely want to replace the RPi3 with a 4 as part of this upgrade path having read about potential issues.

I'm listening to a Raspberry Pi 5 connected to a Topping D10s DAC through a USB cord right now and the only power to the DAC is via the RPi5. I've not done this with a RPi4 though. However, I presume it will also work just fine.

 

[wric01]

For high level geeks, One os rules them all. Symphonic MPD , strict i2s only and usb ports disabled. No other raspi os comes close. My setup Pi2aes mercury i2s to r2r dac.

 

[guyboisvert]

For high level geeks, One os rules them all. Symphonic MPD , strict i2s only and usb ports disabled. No other raspi os comes close. My setup Pi2aes mercury i2s to r2r dac.

...except i2c isn't the best interface (designed for close range inter-chip communication and slave clocking), async USB way better... And if you're really geek, use MoOde player which support DSP and apply your room measurements with REW AND is free and open source. Dunno about Symphonic, will have a look but "i2c" locking is a real no go...

 

[ampguy]

A bit off topic, but if Amir is interested, I have a couple/few Pi3's with the 100Mbps ethernet port that sound as good as my Pi4 roon endpoints. I have a total of 6 or 7 roon endpoints, with varying os's/apps. I think my Pi3s are simply DietPi and the roon-endpoint software. My 4's have Arch, Arch r/t (the same kernel a vendor called silent angel or vitos was using - I could not hear a difference), and possibly Ropiee, moode, or Volumio apps though all are used for Roon endpoints only.

No hats on anything, always external USB DACs, though I have nothing against the hats, just have not had any issues with sound quality on pi3s (or 4s). The RAAT protocol used by Roon is simply data that needs to get transported to a decent quality DAC. If the USB implementation on my Pi3s is causing something measurably inferior to a 4, yet audibly not, I'd be very interested.

Put your money into your Roon subscription, Quboz, etc. Not snake oil solutions for your home IT platform, use wired connections. Roon servers can be low power solutions, but I'd not recommend a low power NUC type box for a server, go with a 65W TDP standard desktop chip, with 4-8 cores, for more compute power, yet still idling at ~10w at the wall. I use Ubuntu for the roon server.

Regarding touchscreen app, that would be cool, and I've considered it, as it is a pain to hear something interesting, then have to grab a phone or tablet not dedicated to the roon endpoint to see who is playing, but cost would have to be low, as I believe a dedicated rpi touch screen just sitting at the endpoint is < $100. In my case, I have old ipad minis, surface pros, but as I move from room to room, not willing to keep powered on all the time even though their draw is miniscule. I'm probably just going to live with having to pull up the phone, I haven't tested roon on my flip 7 yet to see if it displays on the outside, but should be able to test by the weekend.

 

[ctakim]

A bit off topic, but if Amir is interested, I have a couple/few Pi3's with the 100Mbps ethernet port that sound as good as my Pi4 roon endpoints. I have a total of 6 or 7 roon endpoints, with varying os's/apps. I think my Pi3s are simply DietPi and the roon-endpoint software. My 4's have Arch, Arch r/t (the same kernel a vendor called silent angel or vitos was using - I could not hear a difference), and possibly Ropiee, moode, or Volumio apps though all are used for Roon endpoints only.

No hats on anything, always external USB DACs, though I have nothing against the hats, just have not had any issues with sound quality on pi3s (or 4s). The RAAT protocol used by Roon is simply data that needs to get transported to a decent quality DAC. If the USB implementation on my Pi3s is causing something measurably inferior to a 4, yet audibly not, I'd be very interested.

Put your money into your Roon subscription, Quboz, etc. Not snake oil solutions for your home IT platform, use wired connections. Roon servers can be low power solutions, but I'd not recommend a low power NUC type box for a server, go with a 65W TDP standard desktop chip, with 4-8 cores, for more compute power, yet still idling at ~10w at the wall. I use Ubuntu for the roon server.

Regarding touchscreen app, that would be cool, and I've considered it, as it is a pain to hear something interesting, then have to grab a phone or tablet not dedicated to the roon endpoint to see who is playing, but cost would have to be low, as I believe a dedicated rpi touch screen just sitting at the endpoint is < $100. In my case, I have old ipad minis, surface pros, but as I move from room to room, not willing to keep powered on all the time even though their draw is miniscule. I'm probably just going to live with having to pull up the phone, I haven't tested roon on my flip 7 yet to see if it displays on the outside, but should be able to test by the weekend.

I just set up a RPi 4 with the 7” touchscreen as a Roon controller and it is great. Seeing what is playing and being able to control tracks and volume is just what I was looking for. I only wish I could load playlists, too. I am running Ropiee.

 

[amper42]

I just set up a RPi 4 with the 7” touchscreen as a Roon controller and it is great. Seeing what is playing and being able to control tracks and volume is just what I was looking for. I only wish I could load playlists, too. I am running Ropiee.

RPi4 - Moode allows you to create and load playlists.
You might try it on a separate SDCard and see if you enjoy that feature.

I love the ability to swap cards on the RPi4 for different types of duties..
I use Western Digital SC QD101 MicroSD Card 64GB ($10) as the base OS/App platform and add a Samsung Fit Plus 256GB USB drive for $23 storage. It's a nice low energy combination of 6W total.

I also setup an SDcard for PLEX. I use it for movies. The options are vast with the RPi4.

 

[M.C. Logan]

A bit off topic, but if Amir is interested, I have a couple/few Pi3's with the 100Mbps ethernet port that sound as good as my Pi4 roon endpoints. I have a total of 6 or 7 roon endpoints, with varying os's/apps. I think my Pi3s are simply DietPi and the roon-endpoint software. My 4's have Arch, Arch r/t (the same kernel a vendor called silent angel or vitos was using - I could not hear a difference), and possibly Ropiee, moode, or Volumio apps though all are used for Roon endpoints only.

No hats on anything, always external USB DACs, though I have nothing against the hats, just have not had any issues with sound quality on pi3s (or 4s). The RAAT protocol used by Roon is simply data that needs to get transported to a decent quality DAC. If the USB implementation on my Pi3s is causing something measurably inferior to a 4, yet audibly not, I'd be very interested.

Put your money into your Roon subscription, Quboz, etc. Not snake oil solutions for your home IT platform, use wired connections. Roon servers can be low power solutions, but I'd not recommend a low power NUC type box for a server, go with a 65W TDP standard desktop chip, with 4-8 cores, for more compute power, yet still idling at ~10w at the wall. I use Ubuntu for the roon server.

Regarding touchscreen app, that would be cool, and I've considered it, as it is a pain to hear something interesting, then have to grab a phone or tablet not dedicated to the roon endpoint to see who is playing, but cost would have to be low, as I believe a dedicated rpi touch screen just sitting at the endpoint is < $100. In my case, I have old ipad minis, surface pros, but as I move from room to room, not willing to keep powered on all the time even though their draw is miniscule. I'm probably just going to live with having to pull up the phone, I haven't tested roon on my flip 7 yet to see if it displays on the outside, but should be able to test by the weekend.

Not really a problem most people have really, given most of us only have a couple of bedrooms, a kitchen and a living room. I am continually bemused by all this "whole home" audio business. Main system in the living room, ropiee system (Quad 11ls driven by an original Cyrus 1) in the kitchen (I cook a lot) and an echo studio in the bedroom. You need to be very wealthy to need more than that (maybe a Bluetooth speaker for the greenhouse?).

 

[ShadowBoxer]

If you use Roon and a Pi as an endpoint, you run the PEQ on the Roon server.

No need to run it on the Pi itself.

So, in that scenario every room (ie speaker-pair) would use one global EQ curve? Or is this the limited case of only one endpoint? Sounds non-optimal from sound source having its own curve?

 

[somebodyelse]

So, in that scenario every room (ie speaker-pair) would use one global EQ curve? Or is this the limited case of only one endpoint? Sounds non-optimal from sound source having its own curve?

No. As I understand it Roon can have per-endpoint EQ curves, similar to some of the LMS server-side EQ plugins.

 

[qirex]

No. As I understand it Roon can have per-endpoint EQ curves, similar to some of the LMS server-side EQ plugins.

This is correct, it's per endpoint in Roon.

 

[formdissolve]

A bit off topic, but if Amir is interested, I have a couple/few Pi3's with the 100Mbps ethernet port that sound as good as my Pi4 roon endpoints. I have a total of 6 or 7 roon endpoints, with varying os's/apps. I think my Pi3s are simply DietPi and the roon-endpoint software. My 4's have Arch, Arch r/t (the same kernel a vendor called silent angel or vitos was using - I could not hear a difference), and possibly Ropiee, moode, or Volumio apps though all are used for Roon endpoints only.

No hats on anything, always external USB DACs, though I have nothing against the hats, just have not had any issues with sound quality on pi3s (or 4s). The RAAT protocol used by Roon is simply data that needs to get transported to a decent quality DAC. If the USB implementation on my Pi3s is causing something measurably inferior to a 4, yet audibly not, I'd be very interested.

Put your money into your Roon subscription, Quboz, etc. Not snake oil solutions for your home IT platform, use wired connections. Roon servers can be low power solutions, but I'd not recommend a low power NUC type box for a server, go with a 65W TDP standard desktop chip, with 4-8 cores, for more compute power, yet still idling at ~10w at the wall. I use Ubuntu for the roon server.

Regarding touchscreen app, that would be cool, and I've considered it, as it is a pain to hear something interesting, then have to grab a phone or tablet not dedicated to the roon endpoint to see who is playing, but cost would have to be low, as I believe a dedicated rpi touch screen just sitting at the endpoint is < $100. In my case, I have old ipad minis, surface pros, but as I move from room to room, not willing to keep powered on all the time even though their draw is miniscule. I'm probably just going to live with having to pull up the phone, I haven't tested roon on my flip 7 yet to see if it displays on the outside, but should be able to test by the weekend.

Pi3 ethernet ports are tied to USB controller, so they're basically Ethernet over USB.

 

[antcollinet]

Pi3 ethernet ports are tied to USB controller, so they're basically Ethernet over USB.

Only in the same way that any other USB connected ethernet adapter that you might plug into a PC is.

 

[ampguy]

Pi3 ethernet ports are tied to USB controller, so they're basically Ethernet over USB.

This is fine with me, as long as the data gets passed with low latency.

 

[ampguy]

One of my pis, running arch and vitos is a pi 4, but model B Rev 1.2:

cat /sys/firmware/devicetree/base/model;echo
Raspberry Pi 4 Model B Rev 1.2, It's a 4GB model, I'll dig through the others and find an older model 3 shortly.

I think I have 2 of the old 100Mbps only, with shared USB/Ethernet chip - both sound great. I do have Pi4s to replace, but not seeing a need to:

 

[ahofer]

On the software side, I install rooextend on my pi4 today and set up the rooadi extension so I now have control of the gain my adi 2 from the roon app. It's very good.

I keep meaning to do this. Does it replace the existing roon endpoint software, or supplement it?

 

[Phorize]

I keep meaning to do this. Does it replace the existing roon endpoint software, or supplement it?

It's a roon endpoint and you control the various extensions from within roon itself. It'a good way to go if you don't need to use Bluetooth on the pi (as you might if you wanted to stream say audible from an android device). It can use airplay so you are covered for apple devices.

 

[somebodyelse]

It'a good way to go if you don't need to use Bluetooth on the pi (as you might if you wanted to stream say audible from an android device).

The manual says it can do bluetooth output to speakers or headphones. I'm surprised it doesn't do input too - perhaps in a later update?

 

[Billyboy]

I have been using RPI 4 for 4 years with Volumio, only for streaming Qobuz. Always worked fine, feeding my dac via usb without a single glitch.

Volumio is ok, also has dsp, but the UI is not the best. Qobuz announced that they will release the "qobuz connect" feature that will allow using the native Qobuz app to stream to volumio or wiim. At that point having wiim or volumio will be just irrelevant since the native Qobuz app is better by definition. Can't wait to forget the Volumio UI.

Roon in my opinion is a useless additional cost if you are interested in streaming services only, and also needs additional devices to run the Roon core, no raspberry can act as roon core at the moment.

Hi there, which HAT did you use to implement a USB output to Pi 4? Did you include additional LDOs?