The Upgrade Treadmill and the Hedonic Treadmill, Audio Upgrade-itis.

[ahofer]

I recently listened to a discussion that suggested another reason for the upgrade treadmill audiophiles seem to suffer from. Up until now, I had chalked it up to the following:

• We tend to hear improvements when we swap out gear. In many cases these are not strictly *audible*. My assumption is that inaudible differences are inherently unstable, so they fade away, causing the listener to seek another hit.
• Sometimes differences are perceived positively - a different FR emphasis can "reveal" something new in a recording. Many times a non-linear emphasis will become fatiguing, so something that seemed like an improvement becomes another reason to upgrade.
• Competitive status-seeking - we need to own the latest thing and hate to think we are missing out on a new tech that might improve our listening experience.

This podcast (about 13 mins in) has a long discussion about the perceived happiness difference between buying experiences and buying things. In sum, *things* produce the same or more happiness in the short term, but experiences tend to season and improve with time while things sort of burn out. It occurs to me that we mostly buy audio in search of that elusive listening experience of total immersion into the music. The joy from the new gadget dies out, but the memory of the new/improved/accidental listening experience actually is polished and heightened over time. So we are measuring our current experience against a remembered experience that is actually very difficult to match in the present.

Perhaps this is more of a nuance than a reason, but audio does reside in this area between possession and experience, particularly remembered experience, and that may place us more squarely on the hedonic treadmill.

As I publish this, I realize this also contributes to the vague language people use to describe differences. They are not only referring to differences they imagine in real time, but differences that may have been magnified or altered by memory. Correlating those with actual audible differences is...pretty difficult. What is the FR of nostalgia?

 

[Matt Bell]

I think things are simpler.

Modern capitalism wouldn’t be so successful if it hadn’t found ways to press some pretty powerful subconscious levers in us.

The snake-oil and tweak merchants appeal to our desire to feel cleverer than other people. The high-end “audiophile jewellery” industry appeals to our desire to feel richer or more powerful than other people.

We’re all engaged in a competition for the scarce resource of other people’s attention: HEY, LOOK AT ME, I’M GREAT!

I’m even doing it now.

 

[ahofer]

I see @MattHooper beat me to this. Wrong search string.

 

[MattHooper]

I recently listened to a discussion that suggested another reason for the upgrade treadmill audiophiles seem to suffer from. Up until now, I had chalked it up to the following:

• We tend to hear improvements when we swap out gear. In many cases these are not strictly *audible*. My assumption is that inaudible differences are inherently unstable, so they fade away, causing the listener to seek another hit.
• Sometimes differences are perceived positively - a different FR emphasis can "reveal" something new in a recording. Many times a non-linear emphasis will become fatiguing, so something that seemed like an improvement becomes another reason to upgrade.
• Competitive status-seeking - we need to own the latest thing and hate to think we are missing out on a new tech that might improve our listening experience.

This podcast (about 13 mins in) has a long discussion about the perceived happiness difference between buying experiences and buying things. In sum, *things* produce the same or more happiness in the short term, but experiences tend to season and improve with time while things sort of burn out. It occurs to me that we mostly buy audio in search of that elusive listening experience of total immersion into the music. The joy from the new gadget dies out, but the memory of the new/improved/accidental listening experience actually is polished and heightened over time. So we are measuring our current experience against a remembered experience that is actually very difficult to match in the present.

Perhaps this is more of a nuance than a reason, but audio does reside in this area between possession and experience, particularly remembered experience, and that may place us more squarely on the hedonic treadmill.

As I publish this, I realize this also contributes to the vague language people use to describe differences. They are not only referring to differences they imagine in real time, but differences that may have been magnified or altered by memory. Correlating those with actual audible differences is...pretty difficult. What is the FR of nostalgia?

Very well stated!

I can be prone to the upgrade or "change something" bug for sure. Whether that is a good or bad thing will be individual, in terms of how that suits someone or not.
So for instance if one is of the mindset "I need to immediately buy my End Game System that is so satisfying I'll never want for more" then the problems of psychology you mention can crop up to keep thwarting that goal. Buying what you thought was your final purchase only to end up looking for something better can be a bummer and it can feel like being on the hedonic treadmill...one you don't want to be on.

Or you can be someone who embraces it, realizing "actually, I just like the sound of different gear, and changing it up every once in a while is part of the fun, the hobby."

I generally tend to be in the latter category. Yet at times the chase can get exhausting so I pull back.

Most recently I had a pretty classic audiophile moment. I'd owned my current speakers for around 3 years. The design was from around 2012. The manufacturer put out a new version of the speaker with upgraded SEAS drivers. I kept hearing about the improvements people heard with the new model (of course...right?). The manufacturer offered to upgrade existing models to the new version, so after hearing the new version I took the plunge and sent the speakers for the upgrade. The speakers sounded bloody marvelous during the time I had them. Did I "have" to get them upgraded? Of course not. But...the audiophile on my shoulder won that battle. Does the new version sound better? Well...seems to me. But who knows, I couldn't do a side-by-side. I'm still ok with going for the upgrade because it scratched that itch.

BTW, your hunch that imagined sonic differences are more unstable, leading to new searches, it certainly intuitively plausible. I infer that the implication is that audiophiles who go in for dubious audio products and woo-woo will therefore more likely keep experiencing dissatisfaction. I'm not sure about that, since the way our brains work it doesn't really take snake oil to "hear things differently." We may get new speakers that undoubtedly sound different from our previous speakers, but since the perception of sound can change with our attention, even the "sound" of that speaker can seem to alter from day to day (one reason for the myth of burn-in), and one can be satisfied with the sound one day, not so much the next. So even gear that plausibly sounds different doesn't really sever the upgrade/change itch necessarily, IMO.

 

[Dunlavyphile]

I've owned many components over the years, but I've only upgraded when the performance/price ratio of a new product has warranted it for me. That may very well have finally come to an end for DACs and amplifiers. Since the standard against which I measure is the live concert hall, at this point I'd probably need to turn my attention to room correction.

 

[JeffS7444]

I had known of the Hedonic Treadmill concept for some time, and I think it explains some serial-consumerist behaviors, which keeps some people forever seeking out "upgrades".

But while browsing a magazine rack recently, I happened upon the March-April issue of Harvard Business Review, and it's cover story on a culture of busyness:
https://hbr.org/2023/03/beware-a-culture-of-busyness
And while the studies were focused on work place culture, I got to speculating on whether a similar urge to do something, even if it's pointless, as opposed to a productive idleness, might also spill over into our enjoyment of hobbies: Simply listening to music seems awfully passive! But if you re-envision the hobby as a lifelong journey of discovery, well, that certainly seems more virtuous than idly sitting around, doesn't it! There can be many hours spent comparing different products, and strategizing one's next move. Never mind that science says that you probably don't need new electronics, and much of an audiophile's "progress" may actually be akin to a Shepard Tone in the sense of going nowhere - at least it seems like it is!

 

[GXAlan]

Hard to say. There is no question that the dopamine hit is an issue in modern society. That said, I have had several purchases that end up going back.

I picked up some Focal Vestia No. 1’s recently based upon
1) recently loving some Focal Cobalt SR800’s and being impressed by the inverted dome tweeter’s dispersion
2) Previously loving the Electra Be and Utopia Be line years ago when I auditioned them before I had the budget to get one
3) wanting something in white with white grilled
4) seeing the outstanding performance of the Focal Chora

I’m sending the Vestia’s back. There is a mid range congestion that affects even very simple music like Jane Moneheit’s “Over the Rainbow”.

The sweep is fine and it should be the Chora with an upgraded tweeter…

i felt the same way with the JBL L52 Classic. Super excited to get it and I just didn’t like the tonal balance once it was here and I am a super JBL fan.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

To quote Benedette Peter’s. I don’t care about losing all the money, it’s losing all the stuff.

 

[TonyJZX]

i think in some ways this hobby is worse than many others

we always hear about young folks getting new phones every cycle but at least that makes sense... i'm not even hugely into phones but i can clearly see a difference with a 2020 phone vs a 2023 phone... the performance, battery... its all easily quanitifiable day to day

but with this hobby we see that class a/b and class d and dacs have got to such a high level of competance

ok we still still speakers need a fair bit to go and we welcome new areas like room correction

but another way to look at it is if you use it every day and its in a 'constant state of improvement' then i dont think thats such a bad thing

if you're spending inconsequential amounts of money who cares

 

[wadude]

I recently listened to a discussion that suggested another reason for the upgrade treadmill audiophiles seem to suffer from. Up until now, I had chalked it up to the following:

• We tend to hear improvements when we swap out gear. In many cases these are not strictly *audible*. My assumption is that inaudible differences are inherently unstable, so they fade away, causing the listener to seek another hit.
• Sometimes differences are perceived positively - a different FR emphasis can "reveal" something new in a recording. Many times a non-linear emphasis will become fatiguing, so something that seemed like an improvement becomes another reason to upgrade.
• Competitive status-seeking - we need to own the latest thing and hate to think we are missing out on a new tech that might improve our listening experience.

This podcast (about 13 mins in) has a long discussion about the perceived happiness difference between buying experiences and buying things. In sum, *things* produce the same or more happiness in the short term, but experiences tend to season and improve with time while things sort of burn out. It occurs to me that we mostly buy audio in search of that elusive listening experience of total immersion into the music. The joy from the new gadget dies out, but the memory of the new/improved/accidental listening experience actually is polished and heightened over time. So we are measuring our current experience against a remembered experience that is actually very difficult to match in the present.

Perhaps this is more of a nuance than a reason, but audio does reside in this area between possession and experience, particularly remembered experience, and that may place us more squarely on the hedonic treadmill.

As I publish this, I realize this also contributes to the vague language people use to describe differences. They are not only referring to differences they imagine in real time, but differences that may have been magnified or altered by memory. Correlating those with actual audible differences is...pretty difficult. What is the FR of nostalgia?

Music may have snared us, but for audiophiles the gear is our hobby. It's what we're interested in and why we visit sites like this one. Of course we're going to be actively looking for places to upgrade. This desire is going to be open to manipulation from all the usual suspects but mostly from within. Thanks to this and a couple of other websites, it's possible to ascertain which moves are likely to be sideways and which can actually improve our hifi sounds. Do-it-yourselfers are in a beautiful situation in that they can enjoy the process of actually building and testing their own stuff, which is perhaps the purist form of the hobby. For those not so inclined, improving our listening spaces and selecting speakers are two main areas in which we can effectively control the outcome.

 

[Joe Smith]

I think we're all prone to it...as I enter my mid-60s, I'm actively trying to only things I need to replace broken things, or things that I really need (that I don't have) and will use repeatedly.

Louis Black has a pretty good rant/bit in his latest special about the dopamine joys of Amazon 2-day free shipping...his thesis being that it's such a boon, it makes damn near everything in modern life not only bearable but positively joyful... It's funny because it's (nearly) true...

 

[RayDunzl]

My audio sytem is stable and has been for many years now.

Of course, I have a new passion/money pit...

It's aluminum, like the Magicos!

And 43 years old now.

... and lust for something with a little more performance.

The price would be a bit steep, though it would be money I'm unlikely ever to spend on anything else.

And it wouldn't be aluminum.

Maybe someday.