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Suggestions needed for modest upgrade path, please.

FraterNS

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Jan 16, 2025
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To the point. Current System - Primary nearfield listening sitting at desk. Occasionally sitting/laying down elsewhere in room. (15x20 normal ceilings.)
Audio Source PC via USB (Optical available), mostly Spotify, YouTube, Games.
Dac SMSL M100, AMP SMSL SA300, Speakers Micca RB42, Polk Audio PSW10 Sub

Looking for an upgrade on the dac/amp side of things (partly I feel like I could get better while still on a budget considering time passed, partly just want new shiny things, partly my DAC occasionally just stops working and I need to power off/on to get it back.)

Budget is $300 absolute total max, would prefer around $250. I have nothing against integrated but would like to have the flexibility to upgrade one piece at a time, and as far as full-sized receivers I used to do that with older Sony's but just don't have the space for one with my current setup.

Thought I had settled on the Fosi Audio ZD3 Dac and Fosi Audio ZA3 Amp. Buying from ebay can get both for about $240. They looked good together (to me) and thought it was time to try something new as all previous iterations for my desktop has been SMSL. Mostly good and no complaints, but a few "stop working sooner than I'd like" episodes.

I've done the unfortunate thing though and read/researched too much for too long and now worried about possible issues like the "audio echo" on the ZD3 or the "channel volume imbalance at low volumes" on the ZA3 plus comparing the SINAD charts of comparable equipment, (higher numbers are always better, right) I've paralyzed myself with edge case issues and FOMO.

So, I am humbly asking for input. You've got $250 to spend (maybe $50 more if you stretch the bills a little). You are fine with your speakers, sub, and source, just need a DAC/AMP, you would like separates, but an integrated that does it all just as good and then some for the same price would turn your head. Don't need anything that has Bluetooth or built in streaming but don't care if the new products have it. Will need a sub out on something. Doesn't necessarily need to be attractive or even match each other but would be nice. Remember "Shiny new thing" needs.

What's the best you can put together?
 
I'm not sure what you think will be upgraded with electronics. You could do far better with speakers and sub(s) though
 
Hello, welcome to ASR

You have come to the right place. Have you searched through


You can look up reveiws of some of your current system. Then you can select between speakers | electronics | headphones. In one of those categories you can sort by price, then go down the lost from low price to high price until you find a recommended speaker with as good a preference score as you can find, then read reviews. You can do similar sorts on headphones and electronics.

Your system is very good now. I would replace the speakers first, buy a calibrated microphone, test your setup in the listening position with free Room EQ Wizard software, then apply some kind of room EQ. There are diffferent ways to do that others can advise.

Then I would get some wired headphones or earbuds for the couch.
 
I'm hoping that newer Dac chips would be better than the one in the M100 (older version AK4452), plus replacing it since it is intermittently failing (main reason driving the change), and hope as well newer AMPs would be able to deliver more power (current 80w rms @ 4ohm), cleaner to my speakers.

I'll happily take suggestions for replacement speakers as well. I can't go too much over bookshelf size due to constricted desk space and the sub lives under my desk. Again, this is only a 15x20 room with two full desks and a queen size bed. I have both my work and personal systems at the desks.

Also, either would be looking at under $200 budget, or what I can justifiably spend on toys for myself every 5-6 months or so.

Thanks
 
I would buy a microphone for 100 bucks or less and start saving up for speakers)).
lol. As a card-carrying introvert the thought of a microphone at my desk is unsettling. It would sit there, staring at me, menacingly.
 
Hello, welcome to ASR

You have come to the right place. Have you searched through


You can look up reveiws of some of your current system. Then you can select between speakers | electronics | headphones. In one of those categories you can sort by price, then go down the lost from low price to high price until you find a recommended speaker with as good a preference score as you can find, then read reviews. You can do similar sorts on headphones and electronics.

Your system is very good now. I would replace the speakers first, buy a calibrated microphone, test your setup in the listening position with free Room EQ Wizard software, then apply some kind of room EQ. There are diffferent ways to do that others can advise.

Then I would get some wired headphones or earbuds for the couch.
Thank you. Unfortunately, the link you included just takes me to an error page.

I've at minimum want/need to replace the DAC due to the intermittent failures. Looking at reviews, particularly at the nice charts with the red-orange-green-blue ratings, I see where my M100 is way near the bottom of the green. So goodish? My eye gets drawn up to all those pretty ones up with the blue lines.. and I've spent hours (and hours) reading the reviews, finding the ones I can afford, then reading the threads, then chickening out because someone measured a 0.8 volt difference on something which makes it apparently the worst thing since the ford pinto, etc.. etc.. then wondering just how much of a difference does 5 points of SINAD actually matter, if that means what I'm looking at is now in the green lines than the blue am I shortchanging myself buying that instead,, and so on..

I'm hoping that people with more experience with the products can help cut through some of this. I've watched a ridiculous amount of YouTube reviews as well and frankly have whiplash from a Channel claiming a device is the best thing since sliced bread, to the threads here on the same device tearing it to shreds. I'm suspicious anyway that some of the YouTube videos are just undeclared commercials, and worried that some of the criticism here is normal enthusiast over analyzation.

I'm hoping I am also striking both a respectful but casual if not humorous tone to show I'm not looking for the best x by .0001 measurements, but for the budget I have, I'm getting the best overall value for my money. (and shiny new)
 
I use the desktop version, but there or mobile look for the Review Index. MiniDSP has some products which might fit. Genelec has great speakers, and some of the desktop ones may be priced well used.
 
lol. As a card-carrying introvert the thought of a microphone at my desk is unsettling. It would sit there, staring at me, menacingly.
You just use it when you are actively calibrating.
 
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You just use it when you are actively calibrating.
Ah. I misunderstood. I thought you were actively answering the question as what "you" would buy, and you happened to be in the market for a microphone just now for recording, etc.
 
I'm hoping that newer Dac chips would be better than the one in the M100
Bad news, DAC chips reached fully transparent quality decades ago. The numbers go up, but human hearing hasn't gotten better at the same rate. :)

just how much of a difference does 5 points of SINAD actually matter,
If you are already past (say) 80dB then it's very little, if you're past 90, it doesn't matter at all except in exceptional circumstances.

Spending $300 on a DAC while you're listening to $150 speakers is pretty backward.

The fact that it's not working consistently is a good reason to swap it out, but there's no sound quality benefit to upgrading further.

I say get the cheapest DAC in the blue or green range that has the features you want, sell your speakers, and take all that money and buy the best used pair you can find.

I got Genelecs in my desktop setup for $550! It's more than your budget but compared to what some people spend on worse gear, it's not that much more. You are not that far from genuinely hi-fi sound, with a little luck and perseverance.

I'll happily take suggestions for replacement speakers as well.

Read some of Amir's speaker reviews and do some contemplating to think about what speakers you'd like to get... come up with a few "stretch goal" speakers, then start scouring the secondhand listings. :)
 
Bad news, DAC chips reached fully transparent quality decades ago. The numbers go up, but human hearing hasn't gotten better at the same rate. :)


If you are already past (say) 80dB then it's very little, if you're past 90, it doesn't matter at all except in exceptional circumstances.

Spending $300 on a DAC while you're listening to $150 speakers is pretty backward.

The fact that it's not working consistently is a good reason to swap it out, but there's no sound quality benefit to upgrading further.

I say get the cheapest DAC in the blue or green range that has the features you want, sell your speakers, and take all that money and buy the best used pair you can find.

I got Genelecs in my desktop setup for $550! It's more than your budget but compared to what some people spend on worse gear, it's not that much more. You are not that far from genuinely hi-fi sound, with a little luck and perseverance.



Read some of Amir's speaker reviews and do some contemplating to think about what speakers you'd like to get... come up with a few "stretch goal" speakers, then start scouring the secondhand listings. :)
Thank you for this information. Seriously. I may do just what you suggested. I may still want to replace the Amp though. New, shiny, etc..

I've been very happy with the Micca's. I do use EqualizerAPO with a config specific to the speakers. Reading the review and comments about them almost feels like I'm reading about a stranger, "sharp highs nicely took care of any facial hair I had!" uh.. my Micca's. sharp??

Maybe my ears just don't know any better and I'm used to them. Will I really hear a difference with the Genelecs???
 
Micca RB42


JSmith
 
Maybe my ears just don't know any better and I'm used to them. Will I really hear a difference with the Genelecs???
<checks measurements>

giphy.gif


Genelec is not the only good speaker out there, more just an example of the kind of deal you can get if you dig around long enough. Often they sell for $1K+ used. I think the Miccas look pretty decent for the money, but a serious upgrade is also well within reach if you do a little homework.

(e.g. you can often find JBL 308Ps secondhand, which measure significantly better and may even show up within your budget without looking too hard.)

One other thing to note, a lot of really nice speakers are active, i.e. have amps built in. So if you go that route you can sell your amp to fund new speakers too. ;)

I do use EqualizerAPO with a config specific to the speakers.
This is good, but be careful with corrections above 300hz or so. The people saying to get a mic intend you to use EQAPO to correct the room, though, which is good advice. With a less-than-massive sub like yours this is actually especially important.

Reading the review and comments about them almost feels like I'm reading about a stranger, "sharp highs nicely took care of any facial hair I had!" uh.. my Micca's. sharp??
Looking at these graphs, they have a slightly rising on-axis response and there's a bump right around 3khz which is perceived as treble and is also in the ear's sensitive range, so that might explain it. One thing I can say is that either way, whatever speakers you're using, your ears are probably used to them by now.
 
Dinner is ephemeral - you eat it and it's gone.
True, but unfortunately no matter how many UMIK-1s I buy I'm still hungry. And they taste terrible.
 
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