I managed to lock the temptation door and throw away the key :)

[EJ3]

I consider it more of an "interest" than a hobby. The only part I've ever considered a hobby was when I've bult speakers or electronics.

And I suppose it's a hobby when I occasionally digitize and "clean-up" a record that's not available digitally

I've got lots of interests, no real hobby, just my interests take over what & how I do things from time to time.

 

[MattHooper]

What reciever/separates that you are uusing for the HT setup?

Well, embarrassingly enough it’s 16 years old too. It’s just an old Denon AVR 2809CI Receiver. All my source equipment and amplification is kept in a separate room.
You can see the Denon receiver in dim lighting in the middle of the rack on the right:

Just above it is an Oppo Blu Ray player and even an HDDVD player.

Is it still the same as 16 years ago? You said earlier that the projectors went through upgrades.

Once I completed my room my home theatre obsession retracted to only upgrading projectors. I’ve always owned JVC and I used to upgrade every two years when there was a substantial increase in contrast with a new model. But I ended up with a JVC RS600 and for the past 10 years, I haven’t seen a need to upgrade because it’s still I believe the highest native contrast projector a consumer can buy (in anything near its price range).

It’s 4K capable (e-shift). I hadn’t upgraded to a 4K source simply because it was going to be so much hassle and expense to re-cable through the walls (my current HDMI cables are 50 feet long and only handle 1080 P).
I actually bought an expensive Lumagen Pro video processor a couple years ago that will process HDR for my projector, but I sort of ran out of money before I could upgrade my cabling so it’s just sitting there for now waiting :-(

I still use my HK5550 from 2009 in the study room, and enjoy the Logic7 and it's DSP.

Cool. Even some of the old AVR’s had some nice processing. I still like the offerings on my Denon for upmixing stereo surround.

I'm beginning to wonder why some older electronics seems more durable

Could be.

Though against that in our back family room, I have my original home theatre set up from around 2002 which was based on Panasonic Plasma, and I set up surround sound, using Yamaha’s expensive flagship receiver of the time. Unfortunately, it malfunctioned after a few years and now only produces stereo and no surround. Ah well… that system is mostly just used for my wife for watching TV anyway.

 

[risandipra]

To be honest, I really appreciate @Oddball for starting this thread, and the topic is on point as the latest technology sometime need more tweaking. And @MattHooper setup with thorough preparation and consideration to make the room enjoyable, inviting, but able to "dissappear" visually when needed seems able to somewhat postpone " the need" for upgrade.

This kind of experience is a nice reminder for those, including me, trying to make the entertainment system that just work for each particular need.

Problems arise from disparity between reality and expectation. Nowadays, it seems those software vs hardware compatibilty, as well as obscurity regarding latest technology utilization, seems to make anyone interested in this audio (and video) chasing the latest update hoping that the problems solved, or going mininalistic setup, or just stop altogether. But there are always ways to make it work.

 

[risandipra]

Well, embarrassingly enough it’s 16 years old too. It’s just an old Denon AVR 2809CI Receiver. All my source equipment and amplification is kept in a separate room.
You can see the Denon receiver in dim lighting in the middle of the rack on the right:

View attachment 457762

Just above it is an Oppo Blu Ray player and even an HDDVD player.



Once I completed my room my home theatre obsession retracted to only upgrading projectors. I’ve always owned JVC and I used to upgrade every two years when there was a substantial increase in contrast with a new model. But I ended up with a JVC RS600 and for the past 10 years, I haven’t seen a need to upgrade because it’s still I believe the highest native contrast projector a consumer can buy (in anything near its price range).

It’s 4K capable (e-shift). I hadn’t upgraded to a 4K source simply because it was going to be so much hassle and expense to re-cable through the walls (my current HDMI cables are 50 feet long and only handle 1080 P).
I actually bought an expensive Lumagen Pro video processor a couple years ago that will process HDR for my projector, but I sort of ran out of money before I could upgrade my cabling so it’s just sitting there for now waiting :-(




Cool. Even some of the old AVR’s had some nice processing. I still like the offerings on my Denon for upmixing stereo surround.



Could be.

Though against that in our back family room, I have my original home theatre set up from around 2002 which was based on Panasonic Plasma, and I set up surround sound, using Yamaha’s expensive flagship receiver of the time. Unfortunately, it malfunctioned after a few years and now only produces stereo and no surround. Ah well… that system is mostly just used for my wife for watching TV anyway.

My Pioneer Plasma Display from 2005, older than my oldest daughter, still working in my bedroom.

My youngest like it better watching youtube there using external box. He said "the picture is nicer, and I couldn't see the difference of less resolution for the given distance"

 

[Oddball]

Btw, @Oddball ... in your room, previously while the speakers were still set as full range, do you found that the sound is worse when the source file is compressed ?

Well, compressed content will always sound less appealing. Did not notice that running speakers full range sounded particularly better or worse because of the compression.

 

[Oddball]

Since Matt was so gracious to share his setup and story, few images of my setup. Don’t ask what is bed doing in the middle of the room. Another compromise I had to make.

A

 

[MattHooper]

Holy moly! Look at those electronics!

And Gallo for surrounds! That must be one spacious sounding set up.

(I used gallo micros as my surrounds in my very first plasma tv based home theater set up many years ago)

 

[Oddball]

Holy moly! Look at those electronics!

And Gallo for surrounds! That must be one spacious sounding set up.

(I used gallo micros as my surrounds in my very first plasma tv based home theater set up many years ago)

Gallos come from the previous 5.1 setup and they are going strong after 15 years so I am lucky to still have them around. They are amazing speakers in all respects but I wanted 9 bed channels so bough a new LCR combo. I don't regret as both Heco's and Revel center are really doing well. Their size is imposing both visually and acoustically.

Amps are 15 years old as well and were overkill for 5.1 Gallo system, but then I had to lean all about bridging and wanted to play with Gallo's second bass coil for which one needs bi-amping. Now they are still good for 13 channels with center having its own Bryston.

 

[risandipra]

That's a nice idea for what one might call "compromise" though, the bed works for floor reflection, spacious "seating" area plus not against the wall, near-field subwoofer that still gives ample space for access to the window.

I once did this setup, but then reconsider after my feet bumped into the surround speaker, moreover when the significant other shrug the shoulders..

 

[Oddball]

That's a nice idea for what one might call "compromise" though, the bed works for floor reflection, spacious "seating" area plus not against the wall, near-field subwoofer that still gives ample space for access to the window.

I once did this setup, but then reconsider after my feet bumped into the surround speaker, moreover when the significant other shrug the shoulders..

Well, the bed is not all that bad after all - my girls requested it for relaxed viewing. And having additional time with them every evening is precious. They don't have a bad setup so needs to be something extra to draw them in. They have a nice sofa and still pretty good 88" TV.

This is my floor out of 3 floors where the family lives, so while setup is definitively not logistically ideal it cateres to my needs. I did have my friends bump into Gallos but luckily they have rounded edges to no real damage was done. I do rearange the room for bigger events for the boys, otherwise formal events are in held in the room below that I also need to beat in viewing experience.

 

[masterhw]

It’s 4K capable (e-shift). I hadn’t upgraded to a 4K source simply because it was going to be so much hassle and expense to re-cable through the walls (my current HDMI cables are 50 feet long and only handle 1080 P).

While I would hate to enable upgrade-itis and run counter to the theme of the thread, HDMI has data-rate limits and not resolution limits (well it does have those too, but we're not running into them here). Typical film content (4K 24fps) uses less throughput than you'd think, and there's a real chance a within-spec HDMI 1.4 era cable could do 4K 24/30fps with full 10-bit per colour.
Unless of course you've already tried this and it didn't work and thats why you say it only handles 1080p.

 

[MattHooper]

While I would hate to enable upgrade-itis and run counter to the theme of the thread, HDMI has data-rate limits and not resolution limits (well it does have those too, but we're not running into them here). Typical film content (4K 24fps) uses less throughput than you'd think, and there's a real chance a within-spec HDMI 1.4 era cable could do 4K 24/30fps with full 10-bit per colour.
Unless of course you've already tried this and it didn't work and thats why you say it only handles 1080p.

Already tried.

My HDMI cables are from 2009, I believe HDMI 1.4, and they are 50 feet long.

I want to be able to pass 4K HDR, current deep color standards, 60 fps, 60hz etc.

Not only did my current issue in my cables not work, even a 50 foot optical HDMI cable struggled to reliably pass the signal from my OPPO 4K player.

For a long time, people struggled to get HDMI to work with the new standards for very long runs like that. I gave up at some point.

I also bought a Lumagen pro video processor to process HDR for my projector (which does not have native HDR processing)… and apparently that is even more finicky about which cables will work at those lengths.
It would be quite costly to afford the cables that are guaranteed to work (via Lumagen recommendation)…. so that will have to wait until I have the money.

 

[masterhw]

Already tried.

My HDMI cables are from 2009, I believe HDMI 1.4, and they are 50 feet long.

I want to be able to pass 4K HDR, current deep color standards, 60 fps, 60hz etc.

Not only did my current issue in my cables not work, even a 50 foot optical HDMI cable struggled to reliably pass the signal from my OPPO 4K player.

For a long time, people struggled to get HDMI to work with the new standards for very long runs like that. I gave up at some point.

I also bought a Lumagen pro video processor to process HDR for my projector (which does not have native HDR processing)… and apparently that is even more finicky about which cables will work at those lengths.
It would be quite costly to afford the cables that are guaranteed to work (via Lumagen recommendation)…. so that will have to wait until I have the money.

Thats frustrating... HDMI is becoming an 'everything' protocol and I'm not shocked it remains finnicky for enthusiasts. I haven't heard of anything in the HDMI 2.2 spec that is supposed to aid in these kinds of issues either, if anything the inter-device negotiations are becoming more complex.

That being said, I've heard of running HDMI over Ethernet(CAT7), and that is feasible considering full colour 4K60 runs about 16gbps.
But who wants to feel like a beta tester.

Anyway, glad you're not in a hurry. For my own setup I'm enjoying 5.1 and have made myself come to peace without having Atmos. I certainly don't think about what I'm missing watching something, which is what really matters. Eventually, but no hurry.

 

[MattHooper]

Anyway, glad you're not in a hurry. For my own setup I'm enjoying 5.1 and have made myself come to peace without having Atmos. I certainly don't think about what I'm missing watching something, which is what really matters. Eventually, but no hurry.

Do you have a Dolby Atmos capable receiver?

I’m still using an old Dennon AVR, so even to experience Dolby Atmos down mixed and up mixed I need to buy a new receiver.
I haven’t bothered because I was saving that until they do the full upgrade for my home theatre. But it all sounds and looks so awesome as it is I haven’t been in a hurry.

Also, as I mentioned, I would upgrade my JVC projector about once every two years every time they made an increase in contrast performance or other features I wanted.

I haven’t upgraded that projector because JVC moved to laser based projectors which have lower native contrast, meaning my projector still has just about the highest native contrast in a consumer projector JVC has produced. And I don’t need the extra light from a laser. Also, folks like me have been completely priced out of such upgrades - the increase in prices for JVC’s laser projectors is just insane over what I used to pay for my projector upgrades.

 

[masterhw]

Do you have a Dolby Atmos capable receiver?

I do, though I am also toying with upgrading it to whatever the successor to the X3800H is. I've outgrown Audyssey XT and would really like XT32, I'm totally sold on the value of room correction.

I went with a high-end OLED and have to admit that were I to build a new dedicated space in 2025 I'm not sure I would go projector. Is the main appeal size? I never liked the fan noise that came with them. In another couple years I'm sure miniLED will have taken even that market share from OLEDs and we'll all have bright, high contrast displays.

 

[MattHooper]

I went with a high-end OLED and have to admit that were I to build a new dedicated space in 2025 I'm not sure I would go projector. Is the main appeal size?

Some people find the main appeal to be size. Some find projection produces a more film-like look and experience that they prefer.

I started off in Home theatre as a fanatic about flat screens starting in 2001. I was the first person I knew have to own a flat panel - a 42” Panasonic plasma, around which I built a small surround system. For me the vividness contrast and clarity of a flat panel beat out any home theatre projectors I’ve seen.

Around 2007 or so I was sure I was going to upgrade to one of the new “huge” (for back then) 65” Panasonic plasmas, which would require being placed in a different room - I chose my front living room, which was serving as my de facto two channel audio listening room.

I tried an experiment where I rearranged the furniture in that room to face the wall that the plasma would go on. I used tape to outline the size of the plasma to get a feel for the size and viewing distance.

But then I borrowed a friend’s crappy low resolution projector to project a 65 inch diagonal image on my wall, so I can get an accurate sense of what I would like to orient the furniture around that image.

And after I did that I made the “ mistake” of thinking “ I wonder what the image would look like bigger?” So I zoomed out the image much larger on the wall, more like a projection set up, and I happen to have been watching the Jurassic Park DVD. The experience blew my mind. Even though the image quality wasn’t as good as my plasma, the effect of that more immersive more cinematic image size was just huge. Now the dinosaurs on the screen didn’t look like small models running around…. they towered over me looking huge just that they did in the cinema!

I put on jaws, and again… for the first time since I was young and saw that movie many times in the theater, it looks like a full-size shark again.

Then I threw on a bunch of my favourite sci-fi movies like alien, Star Trek and Star Wars, etc. The only way I’d ever been able to watch those movies outside a movie theater was on standard little CRT TVs or my plasma.
They had long been reduced to “ vivid looking toys, zooming around on screen.”

Put on the huge protected image on my wall I was returned to the experience of the cinema - that opening flyover of the Star Destroyer in Star Wars felt more like a huge ship passing overhead. Putting on alien felt more like visiting that planet again. Etc.

So that was the experience that turned me around from a flat panel fanatic to deciding I would make a projection based home theatre.

Fortunately, that coincided with JVC finally cracking the code on projector contrast - able to do much deeper black levels - so that now the image quality started to compete more with panels.

So my own answer to your question, is that while I am amazed at the image quality from OLED, I could never give up the screen size that I am used to, which creates a walk into it sensation of dimensionality and believability.
I also have a flexible system where I can vary the image size to a taste, without sacrificing resolution, which I wouldn’t wanna give up either.

 

[masterhw]

I appreciate the thoughtful reply! I understand what you mean... I've gone to the IMAX theatre near me a couple times in the past year and I can't fathom how I would recreate a picture that enveloping at home. Certainly not with anything resembling 'ideal' centre speaker placement. But on the flip side, every so often I'll rewatch something on the OLED and swear it didn't look that vivid/sharp/lifelike in the theatre.

Certainly agree that new projectors have gone bonkers with pricing, thats probably the largest barrier to my seriously considering one. By the time I replace my 2022 Samsung OLED huge miniLEDs will probably be half the price of a laser projector and far less needy. Thanks RTINGS for playing a similar role to ASR but in the display space.

 

[risandipra]

While I would hate to enable upgrade-itis and run counter to the theme of the thread, HDMI has data-rate limits and not resolution limits (well it does have those too, but we're not running into them here). Typical film content (4K 24fps) uses less throughput than you'd think, and there's a real chance a within-spec HDMI 1.4 era cable could do 4K 24/30fps with full 10-bit per colour.
Unless of course you've already tried this and it didn't work and thats why you say it only handles 1080p.

I want to chime in regarding the practicality of home theatre in a room that is not dedicated (living room) and why this thread is I think resonate the basic thing that most of us seek, and eventually have to always compromise. And some compromise could turnout to be acceptable

I use Apple TV4K as source, to Denon 1700 , to an LG TV (from circa 2016), in my living room setup.
I move The previously use HK5550 to my study for two reasons
1. The remote has become less responsive in some buttons
2. I want to try Atmos (5.1.2)
All working just fine, although I still prefer Logic7 for up-mixing, the simplicity of using just Apple TV4k remote to power on/off and control the volume and browse the source, turns-out make the system way more utilized by my wife and kids.

Since the room is open concept (non-symmetrical side walls); I have three options:
1. Put the couch in 2/3 of room length, 5.1.2 - ideal.
2. put the couch against the rear wall, use 7.1 but the side surround is closer to front (between 45-55). [For music, I like it better. For movies, I don't think I miss that much, comparing, and not having height channel, so long as the surround channels put bit higher].

3. Put the couch against the rear wall, 5.1.2.
My other family members enjoy "something coming from above" better. And they prefer this setup since the more spaces between the TV and the couch gives the flexibility to do multi-tasking: play board games while enjoying music, could do group Yoga/Aerobic using more space between the couch and TV, plus study group discussing some slides / presentation rehearsals using Apple TV4K displaying content from iPad. And the way this room is utilized to become more Communal, (I prefer kids nowadays hanging around at some living room of some home with some adults / parents around, hence, my house become sort of "basecamps" for my daughters, compared to let them don't-know-where doing don't-know-what), I think that, plus I could get to know the friends of my kids, learning new things from them, as well sharing some good music from my era and theirs, that's something that I prefer.
When everyone is not home, I back to #1, set to another audio preset for that position: done.


Now, being able to do this, I once tried to get some projector, but my wife hesitated to since our previous experience (the fan noise, the durability, the more complicated setup, the cost) had not been so good. And though I really do want to put center channel behind some perforated screen, but if the setup only cause my other family members to not using the setup since she thinking about the working hours of the projector all the time; then we could just go back to TV.

Now I've been thinking about UST Projector, (albeit still no center channel behind screen), but HDMI connection could not just make my stable output for PS4 through the AVR to my TV, (the fact that maybe my TV is to old for the HDCP), but still I just can't justify the purchase due to the potential issues comparing back then when the Video Cable are separated from Audio Cable.

And since the kids nowadays don't really care whether the sound is coming from TV to AVR - Multichannel up-mix vs 7.1 direct connection to the AVR so long as they play together with their friend, and that using more modern TV I could just alternate the connection with shorter cables, we compromise with no projector.

If somehow No HDMI problems like we encounters like now, I would get the biggest screen + Projector knowing that the only problem I might encounter is just to "replace the lamp". Now seems everything is in the edge of software vs hardware compatibility. The thought of trying every cable that just works, hide them neatly, then introduce to the same problem once another electronics is change/added, or even worse, after merely software/firmware updated, make me hesitant, since to me this entertainment systems should be just an oasis with acceptable compromise, never should just be another source of avoidable nuisance.

 

[risandipra]

Some people find the main appeal to be size. Some find projection produces a more film-like look and experience that they prefer.

This. Once the picture size, and the darkness of the room combined, adding "headroom" to the screen brightness, creating such an immersive environment, people could kind of forget about all other shortcomings in audio.

@MattHooper setup that could change from regular room to a dedicated one, plus the decision to put the projector in motorized platform (easy for maintenance and setup) is on point in my opinion.

 

[risandipra]

I appreciate the thoughtful reply! I understand what you mean... I've gone to the IMAX theatre near me a couple times in the past year and I can't fathom how I would recreate a picture that enveloping at home. Certainly not with anything resembling 'ideal' centre speaker placement. But on the flip side, every so often I'll rewatch something on the OLED and swear it didn't look that vivid/sharp/lifelike in the theatre.

Certainly agree that new projectors have gone bonkers with pricing, thats probably the largest barrier to my seriously considering one. By the time I replace my 2022 Samsung OLED huge miniLEDs will probably be half the price of a laser projector and far less needy. Thanks RTINGS for playing a similar role to ASR but in the display space.

FWIW, I use my TV with reduced brightness and contrast, slightly dimmed the room light, it can give the sensation not having direct display in room that sometimes more to the resemblance of movie theatre. But for multi-tasking within the room, IME, brighter setting is more appropriate