MQA Deep Dive - I published music on tidal to test MQA

[bboris77]

This was what I found. It does not properly adjust DAC sample rate, so any high-sample rate recordings will be resampled.

I'll check later if it is bitperfect provided the sample rate is manually set correctly

It is really sad that we are having to second-guess whether these major music streaming services are truly bit-perfect and lossless. If Amazon HD is not bit-perfect for at least 16bit/44kHz content (still no empirical data), Canadians have literally no other options left now that Tidal has started compromising its Hi-Fi content. I spent the entire morning trying to use various VPN tools to register for Qobuz with no success. I got to the stage where it asked for payment info and then it refused both my credit card and PayPal.

First World problems, I know.

 

[levimax]

Roon would tell me if they were mqa on qobuz. I've seen one example (a 2l title I believe), nothing mainstream.

I read that "turning on the MQA light" was just a flag so theoretically non MQA content could turn the light on and MQA content could play leaving the light off. My paranoid question is how can I tell if Qobuz is actually streaming 44/13 bit MQA content with the light off rather than true 44/16 content. Can the files to analyzed somehow to tell? I am suspicious that with the Warner music library that is what may be happening.

 

[Racheski]

yah, tidal was honestly pretty screwed and waiting to run out of venture capital before the big infusion recently. i don't see them getting anywhere near even youtube music in the next 5 years though. if lossless is the only thing they campaign on, they are doubly screwed, since those of us who care about that are exactly as you said, a rounding error in the overall marketplace.

i do think it's still good to expose this closed alternative to lossless as, frankly, the fraud that it is, but don't get too much underwear in too much of a twist because spotify lossless is pretty much going to be the nail in the coffin that takes all of our business from tidal and amazon music HD, and spotify absolutely does not want to pay MQA a red cent.

It may be a rounding error in the marketplace, but 3 million subscribers is A LOT of revenue, especially in the audiophile world. And if folks still generally believe that MQA has some value, which according to @GoldenOne survey they do, Spotify lossless is not going to be the nail in the coffin. On top of all this, plenty of recent and upcoming electronic devices are MQA compatible, and I don't want to see consumers pay the extra dough for a feature nobody needs.

 

[nimar]

I read that "turning on the MQA light" was just a flag so theoretically non MQA content could turn the light on and MQA content could play leaving the light off. My paranoid question is how can I tell if Qobuz is actually streaming 44/13 bit MQA content with the light off rather than true 44/16 content. Can the files to analyzed somehow to tell? I am suspicious that with the Warner music library that is what may be happening.

Its against the MQA license to "turn the light off" assuming you have an MQA capable DAC, as its already seen that Roon basically does that when you tell it to play HiFi and it skips the first unfold and claims its plain FLAC.

 

[Jimbob54]

I read that "turning on the MQA light" was just a flag so theoretically non MQA content could turn the light on and MQA content could play leaving the light off. My paranoid question is how can I tell if Qobuz is actually streaming 44/13 bit MQA content with the light off rather than true 44/16 content. Can the files to analyzed somehow to tell? I am suspicious that with the Warner music library that is what may be happening.

Roon tells you (if you click on the signal path blob) what is being played and what is done to it. And decodes mqa. So it would say (assuming I look at the signal path, which I do quite often).

 

[Jim Matthews]

This is the problem there will be no Redbook even if that's is what you think your streaming they serve you thoose "MQA CD" files instead with 13bit resolution+unwanted noise

I haven't seen the catalog of MQA encoded files. It's probably the same chestnuts that have been subject to reissues since "Japanese pressing" was a thing.

(See: Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs, Digital remaster, Nautilus "Super Disc")

As a casual browser, I haven't actually seen anything recorded in the most recent decade that has been treated this way.

 

[nimar]

It is really sad that we are having to second-guess whether these major music streaming services are truly bit-perfect and lossless. If Amazon HD is not bit-perfect for at least 16bit/44kHz content (still no empirical data), Canadians have literally no other options left now that Tidal has started compromising its Hi-Fi content. I spent the entire morning trying to use various VPN tools to register for Qobuz with no success. I got to the stage where it asked for payment info and then it refused both my credit card and PayPal.

First World problems, I know.

Having recently moved from the UK I still have a UK bank account / credit card. But Qobuz is £12.49/month in the UK and $12.49/month in the US. Basically $50 USD more a year in the UK. And Tidal is $10/month with the bestbuy deal.

Guess the option now for Canadians is to get people in the US to sign up for them.

 

[Jimbob54]

I haven't seen the catalog of MQA encoded files. It's probably the same chestnuts that have been subject to reissues since "Japanese pressing" was a thing.

(See: Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs, Digital remaster, Nautilus "Super Disc")

As a casual browser, I haven't actually seen anything recorded in the most recent decade that has been treated this way.

Check out the mainstream pop charts stuff. Lots of "master" stuff that's just 44.1/48

 

[nimar]

Roon tells you (if you click on the signal path blob) what is being played and what is done to it. And decodes mqa. So it would say (assuming I look at the signal path, which I do quite often).

It doesn't tell the truth when streaming from Tidal. If you've set it to Hifi it claims MQA tracks are plain FLAC in the signal path.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s-it-worse-than-flac.21735/page-6#post-746890

 

[voodooless]

I read that "turning on the MQA light" was just a flag so theoretically non MQA content could turn the light on and MQA content could play leaving the light off.

Could be a fun experiment: replace the non MQA bits with a different song, and then see if the blue light still comes on.

 

[levimax]

Roon tells you (if you click on the signal path blob) what is being played and what is done to it. And decodes mqa. So it would say (assuming I look at the signal path, which I do quite often).

It doesn't tell the truth when streaming from Tidal. If you've set it to Hifi it claims MQA tracks are plain FLAC in the signal path.

Assuming Warner music is lazy and or devious they could provide files that are MQA encoded equivalent to the "first unfold" with the MQA "flag" off to Qobuz. These are in essence 44.1/13 files and they would play on any DAC with our without MQA and without the light coming on. My question is can a 44.1/13 bit MQA encoded file be detected some way besides relying on the MQA "flag" system?

 

[Jim Matthews]

It is really sad that we are having to second-guess whether these major music streaming services are truly bit-perfect and lossless.

First World problems, I know.

Even with all the starving people in the World, I'm still hungry for lunch.

We're the lucky ones, and should enjoy our good fortune.

 

[Jimbob54]

It doesn't tell the truth when streaming from Tidal. If you've set it to Hifi it claims MQA tracks are plain FLAC in the signal path.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s-it-worse-than-flac.21735/page-6#post-746890

Ah OK. So you're worried some qobuz 16/44 might actually be this new mqa lite stuff that warners and Co have pumped out recently and we wouldn't know?

If so, I'd best live in blissful ignorance

 

[wgb113]

Just cancelled my Tidal HiFi bolt-on to my Third Man Records Vault subscription. I never used it much except to check out stuff to decide whether to purchase the CD/LP. We have an family Apple Music subscription that everyone else in the house uses so I can just use that for the same purpose.

I did note MQA being a marketing gimmick as being the reason for my cancellation.

Nice work @GoldenOne !

 

[Jim Matthews]

Check out the mainstream pop charts stuff. Lots of "master" stuff that's just 44.1/48

Does that imply it has, or has not been dipped in the special sauce?

I'm still within the trial window, comparing Tidal to Qobuz. I haven't subscribed to either, yet.

 

[Jimbob54]

Does that imply it has, or has not been dipped in the special sauce?

I'm still within the trial window, comparing Tidal to Qobuz. I haven't subscribed to either, yet.

Ha. It implies its been wafted near the sauce bottle.

 

[Jim Matthews]

Ha. It implies its been wafted near the sauce bottle.

Same way I make a Martini?

* glance briefly at the Vermouth label *

I suspect this is (yet another) tempest in a teapot.

 

[RichB]

According to one report, streaming subscriptions as of Q1 2000 were:

Spotify: 128 million
Apple Music: 72 million
Amazon Music: 56 million
Tencent Music: 44 million
Google Play / YouTube Music: 24 million
Deezer: 8 million
Pandora: 4 million
Others: 64 million

Among “others,” Tidal claims 3 million subscribers, or about 0.7% of all streaming subscribers.

So 99.3% of music streaming subscribers do not have access or listen to MQA. In fact, 97% don’t even seem to care about CD quality lossless streaming.

So basically MQA is a rounding error in the marketplace. It will not be the differentiator that drives Tidal to overcome Spotify.

Yes, but MQA captured 99% of most gullible among us, namely, the well-heeled audiophile press.

- Rich

 

[Jimbob54]

Assuming Warner music is lazy and or devious they could provide files that are MQA encoded equivalent to the "first unfold" with the MQA "flag" off to Qobuz. These are in essence 44.1/13 files and they would play on any DAC with our without MQA and without the light coming on. My question is can a 44.1/13 bit MQA encoded file be detected some way besides relying on the MQA "flag" system?

I think it's safe to say any long established major corporation is to some degree both lazy and devious. It tends to be how they make the most money and also enter decline.

 

[sq225917]

@ grooved, perhaps you should refresh your understanding on the effects of higher sample rates. Increased rates only give access to higher frequencies, not smoother reconstruction, time to put that stair step idea you're hiding onto in your head to bed. Shorter sales doesn't equal smoother.