• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Is "HiRes" FLAC from Tidal really a thing ?

VintageFlanker

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
4,995
Likes
20,091
Location
Paris
Edit : solved by @SKBubba :

Hi folks,

About two months ago, Tidal announced the support of "Hires" FLAC for Hi-Fi Plus subscribers. A decision that obviously comes next to the financial troubles surrounding MQA sooner this year. At the time, Tidal communicated about their plans to integrate HiRes FLAC in addition to the already existing MQA tracks (Which by the way, are still remaining by today).

I mainly used Qobuz this last couple of months, so I did not realise until a few days ago...

... Where are supposed to be these so-called "HiRes FLAC" tracks, which I assume are at least 24 bits /44.1kHz and above ? I found none of them so far. None.

More worrying, I feel like the Tidal mobile app is deliberately lying by labeling some tracks as HR FLAC while they absolutely aren't. Let me explain...

The Tidal app is clearly distinctive about regular 16/44 FLAC:
1000019526.png
MQA (could be either 16 or 24 bits):
1000019527.png
And the lastest addition, HiRes/24 bits FLAC :
1000019528.png


Please note that supposedly HiRes content is displayed in yellow colour, which is misleading to begin with, since it also applies to 16bits MQA tracks (and yes, there're a lot of these).

Now, what are these HR FLACs exactly. The app doesn't say if it is 24b 44/48/88/96/192, as Qobuz does. What's interesting is that I couldn't find anything close to HiRes/24 bits, while playing the same tracks in tiers-apps such as Roon or UAPP.

Let have a look at the New Arrivals : Tidal HiRes playlist:

1000019489.png


Whatever track I take in that list, I couldn't verify it as some "HiRes" file in tiers apps. Here is what Roon tells me :
1000019530.png

The exact same file is indeed a regular 16b/44.1kHz one... Note that there still are MQA 24bits, but no sign of common 24 bits FLAC.

Same goes for UAPP:
1000019492.png


You get the MQA but no sign of 24 bits FLAC anywhere.

That is not supposed to be a proper investigation, yet, I think that should raise some red flags:

- What the heck is going on ? Are other apps simply not supporting 24 bits FLAC yet ? It would be kind of weird, indeed, since either UAPP and Roon have no issues playing 24 bits FLAC from Qobuz at all...
- Is Tidal deliberately lying to us ? By tagging some of their 16/44 files as HiRes while they are not?

For now, I'm just wondering. Open to thoughts or suggestions...
 
Last edited:

GD Fan

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
968
Likes
1,750
Location
NY, NY USA
Same questions here. Looks like FLAC in Tidal is 16 bits, not 24?

Screenshot_20231007_200927_BubbleUPnP.jpg


Edit: Between this and (especially) the price increases I'm strongly considering switching to Qobuz.
 

Matias

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
5,088
Likes
10,947
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
Here is an example I remembered that really is high res. The WiiM app shows it clearly.

Screenshot_20231007_211816_WiiM Home.jpg
 

SKBubba

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Messages
458
Likes
810
Roon, wiim, connect devices, other third-party apps have not been updated to support tidal max/flac. Tidal says later this year. Until then you will still get mqa all over the map, even basic hifi 16/44 tier.
 

boxerfan88

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
401
Likes
446
Yup, only the blue light is real. ;)
 

SKBubba

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Messages
458
Likes
810
Thanks, that explains a lot.

Any source about their statement?
Roon statement here...


Audirvana statement here...


Wiim statement here...


Cambridge Audio statement here...


Etc.

There was also something from a Tidal employee on reddit, but don't remember where exactly.
 
OP
VintageFlanker

VintageFlanker

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
4,995
Likes
20,091
Location
Paris
Roon statement here...


Audirvana statement here...


Wiim statement here...


Cambridge Audio statement here...


Etc.

There was also something from a Tidal employee on reddit, but don't remember where exactly.
Thanks.

Case closed, then !
 
  • Like
Reactions: ENG

heraldo_jones

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
84
Likes
107
There is a program called Tidal-GUI with which you can download songs. With it, you can see that sometimes within the same album that is rated as MASTER, there are songs that actually aren't. Besides, there are also MASTER quality albums with lower bitrates than others in HIFI quality. In the end, it all boils down to how well or poorly the album was donde in th whole process (producing, recording, mixing, mastering).
 

Snoopy

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
1,643
Likes
1,243
Back to qobuz sublime soon and I will keep buying the stuff that I really like in high Res and on CDs, sacds, Blurays.

tidal is just a mess.
 
D

Deleted member 48726

Guest
Click the numbers to see if you are able to hear any difference.

>>Lossy vs. lossless tests no. _1_ / _2_ / _3_<<
 

Ron Texas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
6,243
Likes
9,376
Some people can hear the difference between Red Book and 24/96 because they know what to listen for. Evidence is lacking on whether 24/96 really sounds better. Some people can easily recognize pre-echo and can pick out lossy tracks nearly every time. Some research indicates that at low bit rates music becomes less satisfying or has less impact.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 48726

Guest
Some people can hear the difference between Red Book and 24/96 because they know what to listen for. Evidence is lacking on whether 24/96 really sounds better.
That's why you should test yourself. I consider myself lucky in the way that I can't hear it and settled for Spotify Premium.. :)
 

Esss

Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2021
Messages
22
Likes
20
Edit: I discovered something - a playlist that I downloaded before the whole FLAC thing did not update. I went to clear data and redownload all playlists against for the change to reflect. Also, it doesn't matter if you play the song from your playlist or just do a search, it will always play the downloaded version.

Here are a few albums you will find in high res FLAC

1. Boney James - Detour - 24/96
2. Boney James - Solid - 24/96
3. Bob James - 2080 - 24/48
4. Rick Braun - Can You Feel It - 24/44.1
5. Brian Bromberg - The Magic of Moonlight - 24/96
6. Stevie Wonder - Songs in the Key of Life - 24/96 (MQA version of this is still available for third party apps at 24/196)
7. Aretha Franklin - I Never Loved a Man the Way I Love You (Mono)
8. Adele - 30 24/44.1 (this should be something many will be familiar with)

This is the MQA version still available on Tidal: This version is 24/192 when unfolded
embed


Here is the FLAC version
embed
 
Last edited:
OP
VintageFlanker

VintageFlanker

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
4,995
Likes
20,091
Location
Paris
Here are a few albums you will find in high res FLAC

1. Boney James - Detour - 24/96
2. Boney James - Solid - 24/96
3. Bob James - 2080 - 24/48
4. Rick Braun - Can You Feel It - 24/44.1
5. Brian Bromberg - The Magic of Moonlight - 24/96
6. Stevie Wonder - Songs in the Key of Life - 24/96 (MQA version of this is still available for third party apps at 24/196)
7. Aretha Franklin - I Never Loved a Man the Way I Love You (Mono)
8. Adele - 30 24/44.1 (this should be something many will be familiar with)
None are available as such with third-party apps. All are either MQA or 16b FLAC when seen from Roon or UAPP. That was the all point of post #1. ;)

Anyway, @SKBubba solved the problem: We just have to wait...
 

Esss

Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2021
Messages
22
Likes
20
Eish - I missed it. that question has been asked and answered multiple times. FLAC rollout is only with Tidal's own apps at this point.
 

Sebby

Active Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2022
Messages
116
Likes
84
Location
Milan, Italy
Edit: I discovered something - a playlist that I downloaded before the whole FLAC thing did not update. I went to clear data and redownload all playlists against for the change to reflect. Also, it doesn't matter if you play the song from your playlist or just do a search, it will always play the downloaded version.

Here are a few albums you will find in high res FLAC

1. Boney James - Detour - 24/96
2. Boney James - Solid - 24/96
3. Bob James - 2080 - 24/48
4. Rick Braun - Can You Feel It - 24/44.1
5. Brian Bromberg - The Magic of Moonlight - 24/96
6. Stevie Wonder - Songs in the Key of Life - 24/96 (MQA version of this is still available for third party apps at 24/196)
7. Aretha Franklin - I Never Loved a Man the Way I Love You (Mono)
8. Adele - 30 24/44.1 (this should be something many will be familiar with)

This is the MQA version still available on Tidal: This version is 24/192 when unfolded
embed


Here is the FLAC version
embed

Very strange...
Mine just says "Flac" or "MQA". It doesn't give me the values like it does on Qoboz
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20231030-205009_TIDAL.jpg
    Screenshot_20231030-205009_TIDAL.jpg
    112 KB · Views: 66
  • Screenshot_20231030-205026_TIDAL.jpg
    Screenshot_20231030-205026_TIDAL.jpg
    85.4 KB · Views: 63
Top Bottom