Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

[Doodski]

But you just have to see both sides and let them exist.
There are a lot of intentionally sounded devices and speakers and many people who are happy with them. And that's okay, because we can't all like the same thing.
EQ/PEQ/Room EQ can be forgotten with these things, it can't work. Because what will happen if something is intentionally manipulated beforehand and then straightened out again? It just ruins everything. You just have to accept that when you go into this cave.

I'm always amazed at how much you can get out of headphones with PEQ/EQ, especially cheap in-ears. But I can't listen to my AKG K812 with any PEQ/EQ.
The same applies to most speakers for me, you can get a lot out of them. I can hear my Aurora 700 well with and without PEQ/EQ, as well as Elac FS 407 etc. But modified Celestion SL 600/700, for example, don't work at all, nor do a few of the most advanced DIY speakers.

Yes, I guess you are right in the sense of PEQing to death twice and some want "purity." To each their own I suppose. I know I for one am a very extreme user of headphone PEQ so on the flipside there will be those that are not. I used to sell Celestion in the early 90s and they had the loveliest sparkly, snappy and clear top end that I had heard to date at that time. Veryyy nice bookshelf sized speakers for up to ~$3000/pr at that time. I can only imagine what the new ones are like now.

 

[Mark617]

HHAHAHAHAHA! Uh oh, did somebody’s lawyer finally talk some sense into him? This is the equivalent of a bully in the Principal’s office offering a handshake to the person he has been victimizing for months. ZERO sincerity. You are a coward, like all bullies, and are trying to backpedal on all the inaccurate, actionable things you said. Since everyone here is smarter than you, we see right through it.

The M-Lore also has some Easter Eggs like 4 downside ports to keep up with the current trend...

The tone of the communications varies in a jagged and unexpected pattern reminiscent of the amplitude vs. the frequency range.

 

[_thelaughingman]

In my experience Chief Engineer or Head of Product Design would rarely, if ever, be on the succession plan for the CEO, unless they are not one of the founders. One of the reasons why might be because that those roles require totally different skills and capabilities to being able to solve engineering problems. I genuinely think you should consider stepping down from your role as CEO, give the role of representing your company someone who is actually good at it asap so that they can help you sail through these turbulent times with minimum damage, and focus on your role as Chief Designer. You are too much vested in the technical details and are failing to see the big picture here.

Well said, he's truly been impotent at viewing how bad this whole scenario is for his company and reputation.

 

[Ze Frog]

I'd love to see one of you [this is an invitation] actually construct a healthy dialog that leads to a productive outcome. Again, here's my side of things...

Amir Majidimehr of Audio Science Review published flawed measurements placing my work and abilities in a false light.

The FACTS are Amir Majidimehr refuses to suspend or modify his unsolicited review of my work as of April 10th, 2024. Amir measured our loudspeaker from the wrong angle and he published a flawed frequency response and step response. The correct listening axis for this loudspeaker is directly on-axis [an entirely different angle] with the 8” woofer. The result is a much better frequency response than Amir is publicly conveying and an ideal step response; a step response that reflects the speaker is ‘time-aligned’. Amir's impedance measurement is also flawed and reflects the supplied feet were not used and with no provisions to plug four 1/4 - 20 threaded inserts resulting in him publishing a flawed impedance measurement, flawed distortion measurements, flawed cumulative spectral decay, and lowered bass output in the frequency response measurements due to internal cabinet pressure losses.

Amir’s picture of the Mini Lore reflects the speaker in the air (6 inches off the ground) with no feet being used to maintain proper internal cabinet pressure. His picture also reflects a sun bleached woofer calling into question just how old this speaker might be. The Mini Lore has been in production for 15 years and the speaker he’s using looks visually compromised.

Amir Majidimehr's fumbled measurements caused him to draw conclusions that produced false narratives regarding our loudspeakers performance and my work.

The Mini Lore has a solid cabinet containing internal bracing within; when you see a resonance that big at 180Hz there’s only one logical explanation… there must be a hole or a hidden cavity in the cabinet. Amir failed to discern this. Amir failed to plug the threaded inserts in the bottom of the cabinet and the result cast a negative light on the speaker. Why do we use threaded inserts with a hole through the cabinet? To make it more versatile for isolation feet and outriggers and to allow for the speaker to be perfectly leveled.

In my opinion, Amir Majidimehr should have been more amiable to suspending or modifying his review when I informed him weeks back there were problems.

I feel blindsided by Amir Majidimehr. I believe he owes me a personal and a public apology. I believe Amir Majidimehr should be doing everything in his power to rectify this problem.

Respectfully,
Eric Alexander
Audio Designer
President
Tekton Design, LLC

The road to constructive dialogue is easily reached, but only you have that ability. I think yourself, Amir and Erin need to meet or have a video call whereby you go in with a cool head, stop accusing Amir of deliberately misrepresentation and offer the methodology at which you require for accuracy.

@Amir seems a reasonable guy, same with Erin, don't see any reason whereby they wouldn't accept a sincere approach to rectifying this. I think people have been saying this from day one, but it's something that requires some merit whereby so far it's just accusations.

 

[Hiten]

All these would have been not required if the speaker were designed in such a way that even if feets were removed it performs same. If speaker are stuffed with absorbant material on walls the difference in measurements would not be much to be noticed.
regards

 

[olieb]

I believe he owes me a personal and a public apology.
I believe Amir Majidimehr should be doing everything in his power to rectify this problem.

I doubt very much that he owes you a personal and a public apology.
I doubt it is Amir Majidimehr who should be doing everything in his power to rectify this problem.

As I mentioned before ( #808 ) this all seems to be an issue of lèse-majesté above all.

Don't hold your breath for a video with substantial information to appear (anytime (soon)).
I doubt it will.

 

[markus]

Is it not possible to recalculate with the old data given a new reference point or are you to place the speakers on the klippel stand again ?

It's not needed. How the speaker behaves vertically is in the vertical directivity plot of post 1. A slight upward trend can be seen but nothing substantial.

 

[SSS]

Followed partly the discussion. For me it is not really worthy since it is a mediocre old style loudspeaker with flaws and perhaps some goodies like any speaker in the world. Too much attention to this "speaker designer". Forget the speaker and the guy.

 

[tomtoo]

As I said, I know a few of them across Europe and also many small manufacturers in this area. All you have to do is say "MiniDSP" 3 times in quick succession and they'll go up in smoke. The sentence “buy a MiniDSP” should only be said in the presence of a doctor.

Of course it's not just black and white and there are exceptions. But it's always astonishing to me when someone like that actually starts to deal with EQ/room EQ/PEQ that their taste in devices and choice of speakers change very quickly.
This is also reflected in the hi-fi shops (of which there are a surprising number in Cologne and North Rhine-Westphalia). Very few of these dealers tackle these topics, also because the two philosophies are not compatible in terms of price.
Of course, this "audiophile" circle is only a part of the market, and I don't think it's growing.
But that's way off topic now...

video ????

Good old cat herder forgot to mark irony.

 

[Laserjock]

@Eric Alexander

Send one of your new units of both speaker pairs (M-Lore and Troubadour) to each @amirm and Erin and let the chips fall where they may. (Feet provided or installed at the facility)

 

[Jim Taylor]

The FACTS are Amir Majidimehr refuses to suspend or modify his unsolicited review of my work ...

Excuse me, but are you saying that the only type of review that is acceptable to you is a review that is solicited ... in other words, that is arranged between the reviewer and you prior to the tests and has your express permission?

Would that not destroy the independence of third-party testing? The very foundation of the integrity of third-party testing is that the testing authority and the manufacturer of the DUT are not in bed together.


Jim

 

[Reverend Slim]

Amir Majidimehr of Audio Science Review published flawed measurements placing my work and abilities in a false light.

The FACTS are Amir Majidimehr refuses to suspend or modify his unsolicited review of my work as of April 10th, 2024. Amir measured our loudspeaker from the wrong angle and he published a flawed frequency response and step response. The correct listening axis for this loudspeaker is directly on-axis [an entirely different angle] with the 8” woofer. The result is a much better frequency response than Amir is publicly conveying and an ideal step response; a step response that reflects the speaker is ‘time-aligned’. Amir's impedance measurement is also flawed and reflects the supplied feet were not used and with no provisions to plug four 1/4 - 20 threaded inserts resulting in him publishing a flawed impedance measurement, flawed distortion measurements, flawed cumulative spectral decay, and lowered bass output in the frequency response measurements due to internal cabinet pressure losses.

Amir’s picture of the Mini Lore reflects the speaker in the air (6 inches off the ground) with no feet being used to maintain proper internal cabinet pressure. His picture also reflects a sun bleached woofer calling into question just how old this speaker might be. The Mini Lore has been in production for 15 years and the speaker he’s using looks visually compromised.

Amir Majidimehr's fumbled measurements caused him to draw conclusions that produced false narratives regarding our loudspeakers performance and my work.

The Mini Lore has a solid cabinet containing internal bracing within; when you see a resonance that big at 180Hz there’s only one logical explanation… there must be a hole or a hidden cavity in the cabinet. Amir failed to discern this. Amir failed to plug the threaded inserts in the bottom of the cabinet and the result cast a negative light on the speaker. Why do we use threaded inserts with a hole through the cabinet? To make it more versatile for isolation feet and outriggers and to allow for the speaker to be perfectly leveled.

In my opinion, Amir Majidimehr should have been more amiable to suspending or modifying his review when I informed him weeks back there were problems.

I feel blindsided by Amir Majidimehr. I believe he owes me a personal and a public apology. I believe Amir Majidimehr should be doing everything in his power to rectify this problem.

Respectfully,
Eric Alexander
Audio Designer
President
Tekton Design, LLC

To be fair, almost every other speaker manufacturer seems perfectly capable of producing speakers with threaded inserts that DON'T breach the internal cavity. You, for some reason, create speakers that are outliers by doing something that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You don't get to blame others for not anticipating your design issue.

But ultimately, had you politely messaged Amir with your concerns early on instead of coming here being immediately defensive and litigious, you wouldn't have the PR nightmare you have right now. It's funny that you're accusing people of being "unduly sensitive" after your behavior here. You still fail to realize that it was the way that you engaged the people doing the reviews that brought things to this point. Countless other speaker manufacturers have dealt with review issues, both here and with Erin, without the behavior you've exhibited. And insults and ad hominem attacks aside, you don't get to swing the wrecking ball and then act upset that your house is coming down. You're the one who did the swinging.

Let me give you an example, for future reference, of what you should have said:
"Hey, we note that your measurements don't match our company's internal measurements. The correct listening axis for this loudspeaker is directly on-axis with the 8" woofer. Also, our design requires the feet to be installed to maintain internal cabinet pressure. I notice that the speaker you measured also appears to be compromised due to age. Can we send you a better sample for you to re-test?"

See the difference? You didn't "inform him weeks back there were problems." You were needlessly defensive. Be better in the future.

 

[AaronJ]

Just....post....your....measurements. It's so simple. If you know the measurements obtained by Amir and Erin don't represent the actual response of the speaker, just post your measurements you must surely already have. The way you are building hype for the upcoming video is ridiculous.

 

[tmtomh]

I'd love to see one of you [this is an invitation] actually construct a healthy dialog that leads to a productive outcome.

If you truly would love to see that, then you shouldn't lead with the threat of litigation, and you should stop acting as though typing the word "fact" in ALL CAPS magically constitutes evidence for unsupported assertions.

Here's a hypothetical example of what a healthy dialogue could look like:

You: "The speakers weren't measured properly. The acoustic center is different, it doesn't look like the through-holes where the feet go were sealed, and the speaker tested looks like an old-production example. That speaker, tested that way, will not measure accurately to how the speaker actually performs. I don't think it's fair to present or assess the speaker's performance based on that."

Response: "Okay, interesting. Can you show us how the speaker is supposed to measure?"

You: "Sure, here's an example. We don't use an Audio Precision Analyzer, and I'm not going to go back and run my own counterpart to every single test you ran, but you don't need all that to see what I'm talking about. Here's some quasi-anechoic measurements that clearly show different response through the upper-mids and no 180Hz resonance" (or whatever).

Response: "Well, I don't know that the type of measurements you've taken are valid below 200Hz, and I'd need to see step-response and off-axis measurements to determine if there's any difference between your measurements and mine in those areas - but I do see the difference in the upper-mid frequency response between your measurements and mine. I'll add a bolded note to the top of the review, temporarily remove the FR graphs, and we can work together to sort this out. Do you have a current-production example of the speaker you can send me?"

You: "Sure, but only if you show me your measurements and review before you publish it."

Response: "I'll show you the measurements beforehand to make sure there are no questions of fact or measurement procedure, but I can't give you review authority or veto power over the entire review or my own final assessment/conclusion. If you can live with that, let's do this."

You: "Okay - but I'm warning you, if your subjective conclusions don't match what you measure from the speaker, I reserve the right to take action."

Response: "Fair enough."

Or you could just threaten a lawsuit, continue to repetitively post a robotic boilerplate statement obviously crafted by or with your attorney in preparation for a lawsuit, make nonsense claims about acoustical physics vs electronic physics, and continue to refuse to provide a shred of quantitative substantiation for any of your claims.

It's up to you.

 

[thewas]

Luckily the NFS uses thousands of measurement points. Unfortunately nowhere in the vertical plane are there any improvements frequency response wise compared to the reference axis used in this review.

Exactly, at 10°-20° above the tweeter axis where he claims that there "is a much better frequency response" it isn't, its actually less flat than on the tweeter axis which Amir chose at the vertical reference axis:

 

[Shadrach]

I'd love to see one of you [this is an invitation] actually construct a healthy dialog that leads to a productive outcome. Again, here's my side of things...

Amir Majidimehr of Audio Science Review published flawed measurements placing my work and abilities in a false light.

The FACTS are Amir Majidimehr refuses to suspend or modify his unsolicited review of my work as of April 10th, 2024. Amir measured our loudspeaker from the wrong angle and he published a flawed frequency response and step response. The correct listening axis for this loudspeaker is directly on-axis [an entirely different angle] with the 8” woofer. The result is a much better frequency response than Amir is publicly conveying and an ideal step response; a step response that reflects the speaker is ‘time-aligned’. Amir's impedance measurement is also flawed and reflects the supplied feet were not used and with no provisions to plug four 1/4 - 20 threaded inserts resulting in him publishing a flawed impedance measurement, flawed distortion measurements, flawed cumulative spectral decay, and lowered bass output in the frequency response measurements due to internal cabinet pressure losses.

Amir’s picture of the Mini Lore reflects the speaker in the air (6 inches off the ground) with no feet being used to maintain proper internal cabinet pressure. His picture also reflects a sun bleached woofer calling into question just how old this speaker might be. The Mini Lore has been in production for 15 years and the speaker he’s using looks visually compromised.

Amir Majidimehr's fumbled measurements caused him to draw conclusions that produced false narratives regarding our loudspeakers performance and my work.

The Mini Lore has a solid cabinet containing internal bracing within; when you see a resonance that big at 180Hz there’s only one logical explanation… there must be a hole or a hidden cavity in the cabinet. Amir failed to discern this. Amir failed to plug the threaded inserts in the bottom of the cabinet and the result cast a negative light on the speaker. Why do we use threaded inserts with a hole through the cabinet? To make it more versatile for isolation feet and outriggers and to allow for the speaker to be perfectly leveled.

In my opinion, Amir Majidimehr should have been more amiable to suspending or modifying his review when I informed him weeks back there were problems.

I feel blindsided by Amir Majidimehr. I believe he owes me a personal and a public apology. I believe Amir Majidimehr should be doing everything in his power to rectify this problem.

Respectfully,
Eric Alexander
Audio Designer
President
Tekton Design, LLC

It seems to me that the way to resolve this matter is to do as you have indicated you intend to and take the matter to court.
This trading of messages on a public forum with the resultant yobbish contributions from all sides seems very unbecoming in my view.
Not only does it not give a flattering impression of your company; it's not doing much on the positive side for ASR either and to be frank it's distracting from the intent of this forum which I believe is to measure and report on the technical merits of sound reproduction equipment.

 

[Everett T]

Amir Majidimehr of Audio Science Review published flawed measurements placing my work and abilities in a false light.

The FACTS are Amir Majidimehr refuses to suspend or modify his unsolicited review of my work as of April 10th, 2024. Amir measured our loudspeaker from the wrong angle and he published a flawed frequency response and step response. The correct listening axis for this loudspeaker is directly on-axis [an entirely different angle] with the 8” woofer. The result is a much better frequency response than Amir is publicly conveying and an ideal step response; a step response that reflects the speaker is ‘time-aligned’. Amir's impedance measurement is also flawed and reflects the supplied feet were not used and with no provisions to plug four 1/4 - 20 threaded inserts resulting in him publishing a flawed impedance measurement, flawed distortion measurements, flawed cumulative spectral decay, and lowered bass output in the frequency response measurements due to internal cabinet pressure losses.

Amir’s picture of the Mini Lore reflects the speaker in the air (6 inches off the ground) with no feet being used to maintain proper internal cabinet pressure. His picture also reflects a sun bleached woofer calling into question just how old this speaker might be. The Mini Lore has been in production for 15 years and the speaker he’s using looks visually compromised.

Amir Majidimehr's fumbled measurements caused him to draw conclusions that produced false narratives regarding our loudspeakers performance and my work.

The Mini Lore has a solid cabinet containing internal bracing within; when you see a resonance that big at 180Hz there’s only one logical explanation… there must be a hole or a hidden cavity in the cabinet. Amir failed to discern this. Amir failed to plug the threaded inserts in the bottom of the cabinet and the result cast a negative light on the speaker. Why do we use threaded inserts with a hole through the cabinet? To make it more versatile for isolation feet and outriggers and to allow for the speaker to be perfectly leveled.

In my opinion, Amir Majidimehr should have been more amiable to suspending or modifying his review when I informed him weeks back there were problems.

I feel blindsided by Amir Majidimehr. I believe he owes me a personal and a public apology. I believe Amir Majidimehr should be doing everything in his power to rectify this problem.

Respectfully,
Eric Alexander
Audio Designer
President
Tekton Design, LLC

Come'on Eric, it's irrelevant whether the review was solicited or not. If you believe the speaker was incorrectly measured based on the center axis, send him a speaker and he will gladly re-measure, I'm sure, to whatever center axis *you* define. The measurement tool doesn't make mistakes, so this should be easy to clear up, right?

Or is this really about having people's confirmation bias removed? Either way there is a simple solution to all of this and the ball is in your court if you so choose to address this.

 

[Esprit]

refuses to suspend or modify his unsolicited review of my work as of April 10th, 2024

What a strange country the United States is where reviews of a product can only be done if a manufacturer requests it.

 

[Nixxuz]

@Eric Alexander

So are you going to ignore the fact that you pulled this exact same act in 2019 when you threatened Ron from New Record Day into pulling all the videos associated with your product? And essentially forcing him into publishing an apology video? How about you address the fact that you PAID him for a review, and then threatened to disclose the whole thing when he made minor criticisms of the speaker? I followed those comments before the videos were pulled. You accused him of the exact same things you are accusing Amir and Erin of, and you threatened him exactly the same way with a lawsuit. So far, the only tactic you haven't repeated was your attempt to convince people that the entire situation was a planned event you created to trap dishonest YT reviewers. Which you said. You said you specifically created the Impact Audiophile speaker to trap dishonest reviewers. Of course, since Ron pulled the videos, I have no proof, but it's possible that after this fiasco Ron might decide to put everything back on display in a show of solidarity, even though it might remind people that he did take money, and not disclose the fact, to review your speakers.

 

[aschen]

The FACTS are Amir Majidimehr refuses to suspend or modify his unsolicited review of my work as of April 10th, 2024.

This is what sucks and is so dangerous. Doesn't even matter who is right on the measurement. Amir Measured a commercially available product with his methods and published it on his site for those that choose to value them, he even provides an open forum for those to present opposing views and discussions.

It is absurd morally to think he should be compelled to take his results down.