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Tekton M-Lore Speaker Measurement Update

tmtomh

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That is not proper analysis. If it were, I would just give you those plus minus numbers and call it done. That logic can also be easily gamed. Why not go from 20 Hz to 20 khz and then say every speaker is off by 20+ dB so they are all the same!

I give you the frequency response so that we can properly analyze the nature of the variations. This requires skill and knowledge which cannot be trivialized to a couple of numbers (hence the reason preference score can misfire). After testing so many speakers and listening to them, the most important area to get right is 200 Hz to around 6 kHz. Below that the room massively modifiers the response. You will need EQ there and with it, you can correct speaker response errors as well (to the limit of its dynamic range). Above 6 kHz, there is not a ton of energy there and variations in preference are rather small. This is why we can get a lot done with headphone testing as it is not reliable beyond 8 kHz or even lower.

From audibility point of view, broad variations are far more audible than narrow ones. So even if they score the same way as far as +- dB, there will be large differences in their fidelity.

Let's look at the two speakers you mentioned:

index.php


We have a notch right before 200 Hz and then peaks and valleys all over the place. Now look at Revel F206:
index.php

It is essentially ruler flat from 200 Hz to almost 20 khz with the exception of a small peak around 4 to 5 kHz. There is no way these two speakers would get similar preference in listening tests.

Going by preference score which takes into account the unevenness of the on-axis response, the Revel got 5.6 while Mini Lore got 3.5. That is 2 point difference which statistically is quite valid in that score.


You have just proven why I need to analyze the measurements and will continue to do so. These measurements are not trivial to analyze and many want guidance to learn them until such time that they can do their own analysis.

And remember, many of these measurements are hotlinked and looked at elsewhere. Without the notations on them, people can easily misjudge what they are showing.

Finally, we apply science of psychoacoustics to measurements. This requires analysis and thought. It is what I provide in my review as opposed to just a dump of measurements which cause the eye to glaze over and ignore.

Since this is in a new, separate thread, I think it bears repeating here that @Eric Alexander himself commented that the M-Lore is a "fun" speaker for many people and that it has "showroom" sound. Those descriptions, while subjective and in the case of "fun" rather vague, are entirely consistent with @amirm 's measurements of the speaker. This correspondence between objective measurement and the designer's own subjective description is independent of one's opinion about how good or bad the speaker is.
 

Rick Sykora

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Thank you @amirm

As much we may understand Eric’s point of view that a minor cabinet leak can, and will change the port turning, and measuring on a different axis will affect the measurement, I feel that the owner’s reaction was unnecessary.

The approach to critical feedback can be managed in a different way.

After all, this is not the same magnitude of problem like a gross error- like a driver being wired out of phase, or a damaged / non-functioning driver.

I would have thought that a different approach would be more constructive eg. Reflecting on limitations of being able to control a user’s set-up process (eg. not installing feet) or listening on the tweeter axis instead of the woofer axis.

I would think this is a better approach and better for public relations for all involved.
After all, Eric does seem to have other interesting designs worthy of audition / measurement / review.

View attachment 364801


Regardless of the designer’s appalling behavior, why does this Ulfberht monstrosity merit any consideration?

Not that it matters as Amir is unlikely to deal with its size and Erin is not doing any more Tekton reviews. At over $20K, does not seem very competitive. Stereophile just reviewed a $30K pair of Moabs if you feel a need. For that spend, they are nothing special other than a 10 dB peak at 100 Hz but still somehow manages to get labeled as “neutral” sounding. Later discovered that the Stereophile graph did not accurately represent the Moab’s bass - very disappointing. My original intent was to point out Tekton’s hypocrisy (still true for more midrange), but felt I should clarify as some of what I stated earlier was based on the misleading graph from Stereophile (remains shown below for context)

1713663972073.jpeg


I would think one would readily get better value buying active pro speakers with some decent customization capability than these backwards Tektons that look like the designer shat drivers on a baffle!

p.s. am sure that hump between 2-3 kHz gives them added neutrality too! And yet the Tekton designer did not threaten Stereophile... o_O
 
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tmtomh

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Regardless of the designer’s appalling behavior, why does this Ulfberht monstrosity merit any consideration?

Not that it matters as Amir is unlikely to deal with its size and Erin is not doing any more Tekton reviews. At over $20K, does not seem very competitive. Stereophile just reviewed a $30K pair of Moabs if you feel a need. For that spend, they are nothing special other than a 10 dB peak at 100 Hz but still somehow manage to get labeled as “neutral”. :facepalm:

I would think one would readily get better value buying active pro speakers with some decent customization capability than these backwards Tektons that look like the designer shat drivers!

Well said. There are bad speakers, and then there are speakers that have some or even many positive qualities but also come with a level of expense and/or drawbacks that are unnecessary, or not present in comparable alternative products on the market.

For me the 2nd-biggest issue with the Moab after the price is the EPDR. IMHO given today's state of knowledge and design and production technology, there's just no need to produce a speaker with EPDR below 2 ohms, especially one whose sub 2-ohm EPDR is in the low bass, upper bass/midrange, and mid-treble. It's notably worse in this regard even than the notorious Infinity Kappa 9, which was designed and produced nearly 40 years ago.
 

meracus

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This is probably not audible and for sure does not justify the absurd price difference, but still, the reconstruction filter of the Dave is definitely better.
Yes yes …. As in the robin is more “ shredded “ then the nightingale …
 

Ken Tajalli

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Their problem is not a problem of science. It is a problem of memory.

A couple of decades ago, it was Bose that did this kind of legal harassment of reviewers. How many of you care (or even know) about Bose loudspeakers today?

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it", --George Santayana, in Life of Reason I, Reason in Common Sense, 1905
my car has Bose speakers.
 

Steve H

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Read it again, From At any rate ....:
View attachment 364952
Ken, you need to stop. The issue was decided a long time ago in Bose Corp. v. Consumers Union 466 U.S. 485 (1984) by our Supreme Court. Unless Eric Alexander can prove “actual malice” he will not recover any damages.

And yes, organizations can “hide behind freedom of speech” as a defense. Amir and ASR are limited purpose public figures in the audio world.
 

Ken Tajalli

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Ken, you need to stop. The issue was decided a long time ago in Bose Corp. v. Consumers Union 466 U.S. 485 (1984) by our Supreme Court. Unless Eric Alexander can prove “actual malice” he will not recover any damages.

And yes, organizations can “hide behind freedom of speech” as a defense. Amir and ASR are limited purpose public figures in the audio world.
1713654546208.gif
 

pseudoid

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...but it is wrong not to recognize its value...
Indeed... pair of Ulfberhts come to $234.05 per driver and the buyer gets 2-enclosures/8-spikes/8-inserts/8-ports/few cross-overs/etc. free-of-charge.
Bang for the Buck becomes "Buckets for the Buck" ...all forty-two of them!:)
 
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MattHooper

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This was truly going above and beyond to accommodate a manufacturers critique!!

The gap between the effort Amir put into making sure his review was sound, fair and supported by evidence, versus the paucity of effort and evidence from Eric Alexander’s side is profound.

Exemplary! Thank you Amir!
 

Palladium

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Regardless of the designer’s appalling behavior, why does this Ulfberht monstrosity merit any consideration?

Not that it matters as Amir is unlikely to deal with its size and Erin is not doing any more Tekton reviews. At over $20K, does not seem very competitive. Stereophile just reviewed a $30K pair of Moabs if you feel a need. For that spend, they are nothing special other than a 10 dB peak at 100 Hz but still somehow manage to get labeled as “neutral”. :facepalm:

I would think one would readily get better value buying active pro speakers with some decent customization capability than these backwards Tektons that look like the designer shat drivers on a baffle!

Weird how all pro monitors only need 1 tweeter instead of 15 to produce ~10% of the sound energy in most music.
 

srm51555

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Weird how all pro monitors only need 1 tweeter instead of 15 to produce ~10% of the sound energy in most music.
If it had one more tweeter, I think they would really have something special for the pro market. Maybe in rev 2.
 

mhardy6647

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