Technics SB-F1 Review (Vintage Speaker)

[Rja4000]

If you would read the whole review you quoted from you would see that for the Genelecs this behavior happens strictly with sine sweeps and Erin got the speaker louder than this test implies in real world applications.

I did.
Nonetheless, I think this measurement is indicative.

 

[GWolfman]

No. Compression is not a problem. Distortion is.

Do you think the current age of the surround and (possibly) spider might have made the distortion worse for today's measurements than if made at debut?

 

[restorer-john]

I still can't beleive someone hasn't sent @amirm an original Realistic Minimus 7. There are many millions of them in the US.

 

[USER]

I still can't beleive someone hasn't sent @amirm an original Realistic Minimus 7. There are many millions of them in the US.

RETRO-MEASURE: Radio Shack / Realistic / Tandy Minimus 7 speakers (early 1980s, Cat. No. 40-2030A)

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

 

[amirm]

Do you think the current age of the surround and (possibly) spider might have made the distortion worse for today's measurements than if made at debut?

It could but measurements are very good for its size. The only doubt I have is whether the pronounced resonance I was hearing is due to driver mounting not being tight.

 

[amirm]

I still can't beleive someone hasn't sent @amirm an original Realistic Minimus 7. There are many millions of them in the US.

I see two versions. One made out of wood and the other plastic (?). Which is the real deal to get and test?

 

[amirm]

You have people wondering what makes the difference between a full size speaker and a bookshelf.
The difference may not be distortion, but only level capability.

Playback level always, always depends on distortion. Slight frequency response changes are simply not audible with music because its spectrum is not flat across the full audio band (drops off exponentially from 40 Hz up).

The typical example is the Genelec small monitor. Its protection won't allow distortion to raise... but will prevent high bass levels.

This measurement would show, objectify, that fact

Not really. I have tested some 200 speakers. Not once have I noticed frequency response dipping at 120 Hz or whatever by 2 or 3 db. When the limiter kicks in strongly as is the case with Genelec, it shows up clearly in my measurements as well:

See top right.

What limits playback dynamics is onset of clicks and pops in the case of active speakers when they run out of amplification. And woofer bottoming out in passive speakers with a port. I evaluate all of this by ear since we don't have any metric for them currently.

Measurements you asked for provide no direct evidence of playback limit. They simply don't.

 

[restorer-john]

I see two versions. One made out of wood and the other plastic (?). Which is the real deal to get and test?

There's a lot of versions.

The 40-2030 is the original, then it got a (a) suffix, then a (b) then a (c). The first is made in Japan by Foster. the (b) and (c) are made in Korea and Malaysia, use a different dome tweeter. That said, there's not much difference although some people reckon the 'original' metal faced tweeter is best. The very first 7s had screw terminals, but they changed to push terminals pretty early on.

The "QC" sticker on Radio Shack stuff (all of it) tells you the year and month. "8A3" would be August 1983. But with 7s, they ran for 25 years, so the 'suffix' helps you identify the exact year as they changed. IIRC, when I first was working in a Tandy here as a young bloke, it was 1987 and we were running out silver Minimus 7s from Japan. All the blacks were from Japan. Then all the new stock that came in was from Korea by 1989. Then it went to Malaysia by 1990.

The Minimus 7W is wood, made in Japan and also had drivers made by Foster. The same speaker was also sold with a Marantz badge with one of their mini component systems at one point.

The original Minimus 7s came in black, silver and Wood cabinet (japan), black and white (Korea) and then they mucked around with ports on the later ones.

The Pro7 AVs etc are differnt but good too. I think I have one here behind my lab desk.

The Minimus 77s (bigger) were a disaster IMO. They are pretty much all in landfill as they had foam surrounds and rotted out early. They also didn't sound any better than the smaller 7s.

 

[restorer-john]

This is the Minimus 7W:

This is the Marantz LS7-vk:

 

[amirm]

The first one is what I found on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/134054738564?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28

With shipping it will be almost $110. Found some cheaper ones but were white: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1252579627...18wxQmdRyLH14Q%3D%3D|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2563228

 

[restorer-john]

The first one is what I found on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/134054738564?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28

With shipping it will be almost $110. Found some cheaper ones but were white: https://www.ebay.com/itm/125257962771?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=238053&meid=5709488bc3eb4b67a7958bcc752c07c5&pid=101113&rk=1&rkt=12&sd=134054738564&itm=125257962771&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2563228&algv=SimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeedKnnRecallV1&brand=Realistic&_trksid=p2563228.c101113.m2108&amdata=cksum:1252579627715709488bc3eb4b67a7958bcc752c07c5|enc:AQAGAAABIF5w9SIYA7LCsjjN3P6Yl26VztH0VKUH9PSWDJnasZbD1yCZJUhd3q2YXl6I7nNELecZEIiewtb0d1ttsdLu1kPAz1ffzBzpl8kNBQr2GCGhvE9ezKZOnIdb1OFzrKkPEcXr6ripqjKTKZ3B4WAW%2BNOhDvC%2F6paTle3ADQXKP%2FgWy43fyYMUQNI6CP6t54Ij9O8HPF88CLKreFrEHqlB7EeMU0o%2F7Y%2FFKqmkSHNOlKgy20%2FVnrPz02dbowJPwp9k5D4uOk53%2Bv3I4duIpSnZiEceLO8lOdVM682qOagTX6kPLpJ4BtgbbKY4bJej8d41lDLHj2qncvqtgwRN8DT0MAvU0RNvYoc4Q4V2O%2BnV2QgYzs3JBik%2B18wxQmdRyLH14Q%3D%3D|ampidL_CLK|clp:2563228

The white metal one is Korean from 1991. The 7W pair looks nice, but expensive. It's the very first run of Japanese 7Ws from 1982. The rubber surrounds still look like new. The seller does say he's replaced the caps, so that would need to be checked they are the same value/spec before testing.

 

[Madjalapeno]

There's a lot of versions.

The 40-2030 is the original, then it got a (a) suffix, then a (b) then a (c). The first is made in Japan by Foster. the (b) and (c) are made in Korea and Malaysia, use a different dome tweeter. That said, there's not much difference although some people reckon the 'original' metal faced tweeter is best. The very first 7s had screw terminals, but they changed to push terminals pretty early on.

The "QC" sticker on Radio Shack stuff (all of it) tells you the year and month. "8A3" would be August 1983. But with 7s, they ran for 25 years, so the 'suffix' helps you identify the exact year as they changed. IIRC, when I first was working in a Tandy here as a young bloke, it was 1987 and we were running out silver Minimus 7s from Japan. All the blacks were from Japan. Then all the new stock that came in was from Korea by 1989. Then it went to Malaysia by 1990.

The Minimus 7W is wood, made in Japan and also had drivers made by Foster. The same speaker was also sold with a Marantz badge with one of their mini component systems at one point.

The original Minimus 7s came in black, silver and Wood cabinet (japan), black and white (Korea) and then they mucked around with ports on the later ones.

The Pro7 AVs etc are differnt but good too. I think I have one here behind my lab desk.

The Minimus 77s (bigger) were a disaster IMO. They are pretty much all in landfill as they had foam surrounds and rotted out early. They also didn't sound any better than the smaller 7s.

You and @Doodski constantly amaze me with your depth of knowledge. Thank you.

 

[restorer-john]

@amirm These are what the Minimus 7 became by 1998. They are the same size, heavier due to magnetic shielding on the drivers and have a rear port. Optimus Pro X-44av.

OPTIMUS PRO X44AV Bookshelf Single Speaker Die-cast Aluminum Casing White Nice | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for OPTIMUS PRO X44AV Bookshelf Single Speaker Die-cast Aluminum Casing White Nice at the best online prices at eBay!

www.ebay.com.au

How they sold in the US, I don't know, but they are easily found as can be seen above.

Heavy little suckers at 2.23kg for a tiny little 2 way.

I'll post some pics.

 

[amirm]

Are you suggest that I test those instead?

 

[restorer-john]

You and @Doodski constantly amaze me with your depth of knowledge. Thank you.

We were just there, selling a lot of this stuff back then. I'm out of touch with current offerings as I'm not in the game anymore.

 

[restorer-john]

Are you suggest that I test those instead?

The 7s are the 'famous' ones with millions sold. You can't go wrong with that review, but I don't think they will be anything to write home about due to their known issues. That said, they are a fun, tough little speaker that are hard to kill.

I've actually never compared the Pro X44av vs a Minimus 7. I can do that over the weekend and see if there is an improvement worth you spending time buying and testing the things. You guys got the Pro X33av/44av/55av over there.

As far as 'classic and cute', the black 7 and the 7W (wood) are known all over the world and fondly in the US. Personally, I cannot see how the tiny diameter port in the Pro X44av is going to do anything except make them worse, but I'll fire one up (yes, single speaker audition. ) and see what's different.

I've got plenty of Minimus 7s, but sending to the US from Australia would just be cost prohibitive compared to grabbing one locally over there.

 

[Morpheus]

Around 1987, in high school, I heard a pair of these at a friends house, it was his parents living room set, they were very design conscious..I was already much into hifi, had aMission' 700 pair at home on a Cyrus, loved the big Rogers...
Didn't think much of Technics, especially speakers, but was gobsmacked when he played "Mountains" by Prince on these..Oh -my - God, the punch, those tiny tots packed, and no box sound thanks to the size and aluminium enclosure... A bit bright too, but what a revelation..
Thanks for the review, very interesting.

 

[MZKM]

Preference Rating
SCORE: 1.2
SCORE w/ sub: 5.0

Sensitivity: 86.0dB (300Hz-3kHz ; spec: 86dB)
Frequency response: +/- 14dB 80Hz-20kHz

​

 

[MZKM]

I evaluate all of this by ear since we don't have any metric for them currently.

Anthony Grimani‘s speaker spec template (not sure what’s the current status, I think he is doing something at CEDIA) had I believe the max SPL of a speaker specified as when the frequency response deviates 3dB from baseline (not sure what baseline SPL).

 

[beagleman]

The 7s are the 'famous' ones with millions sold. You can't go wrong with that review, but I don't think they will be anything to write home about due to their known issues. That said, they are a fun, tough little speaker that are hard to kill.

I've actually never compared the Pro X44av vs a Minimus 7. I can do that over the weekend and see if there is an improvement worth you spending time buying and testing the things. You guys got the Pro X33av/44av/55av over there.

As far as 'classic and cute', the black 7 and the 7W (wood) are known all over the world and fondly in the US. Personally, I cannot see how the tiny diameter port in the Pro X44av is going to do anything except make them worse, but I'll fire one up (yes, single speaker audition. ) and see what's different.

I've got plenty of Minimus 7s, but sending to the US from Australia would just be cost prohibitive compared to grabbing one locally over there.

I believe I read somewhere that the Minimus 7 was the best selling speaker of all time.

Nothing even came close to how many were sold.

I have owned a few pairs, and while not the greatest sound, it is "Good enough" to enjoy and very durable and just simply amazing in some hard to describe way.