Stereophile and Audio Cables

[Chrispy]

It's not hard to understand if you think ASR is actually becoming so successful that "victory" over anti-scientific nonsense is within sight. If that happens then the whole "price=quality, measurements=meaningless" industry will collapse and many charlatans' incomes with it... people can get very nasty when they perceive their occupation is under threat.

I don't know that the cause has advanced that far, but we know something is going right if the hardcore anti-science subjectivists are bothered.

Personally I think there will always be a market for subjective reviews even if the "ASR way" took over 100%. People just want to hear the opinions of other people even if they already know the outcome. The subjectivists would only have to give up on some of their unproductive assertions, but the industry as a whole wouldn't change radically IMO. We'd hopefully see a total dying-off of the gold-plated ethernet cables and such, but some people will still want fancy s*** even if they know it doesn't do anything to the sound.

From my general experience in audio fora/groups seems quite a few really want to just align themselves with someone else's opinion. Whether they can't make up their own minds or need to point to their significant other or other reasons....hard to know.

 

[MattHooper]

I am a member of many different audio forums, and I also peruse those I haven't joined. ASR is constantly name checked. It's made a very big impact.

 

[SIY]

Be careful with such statements.

View attachment 357975

Yes, at VHF, one has to pay attention to source, termination, and characteristic impedance. At audio, though...

 

[Chrispy]

I am a member of many different audio forums, and I also peruse those I haven't joined. ASR is constantly name checked. It's made a very big impact.

As it should. Shame it isn't a bigger influence over the hand waving crowd.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Answer to 1. Or more likely you didn’t have courage to ask John Atkinson directly and be disappointed with his response. You are a fan after all.

Answer to 2. At RMAF 2016 I introduced myself to John with you were wrong in a speaker review and asked why reviewers don’t volume match. He told me his listening room was not set up for proper speaker placement. But he gave the speakers a Class A rating. Then he said volume matching would interfere with getting the magazine out. Now read Listening #166. Some pretty lame defenses for what the magazine does.

You are wrong about John’s default. It is to get the magazine out, keep advertisers happy and keep Paul Miller of HIFI News in the lifestyle he is accustomed to. I follow AVTech Media’s financial reporting (Stereophile’s parent). They are doing well for a publishing company.

Fast forward to 2023 LAOCAS Annual Gala. John and I had dinner afterward. MQA came up. An interesting conversion between the victor me and John the vanquished.

Well this was different than the early days. JGH (Stereophile) and HP(TAS) didn't worry about getting the magazine out. Sometimes my 4 per year subscription lasted 2 years. In Stereophile's first 20 years there were only 46 issues. For a time TAS was on an even slower rate of issues. Of course they also had no worry about keeping advertisers happy because there were none. They didn't take ads. (JGH "the better the ad, the worse the product.") Right, wrong, delusional or enlightened it gave their opinions some credibility of not being bought and paid for at least. The magazines were a lot more entertaining as well.

 

[MattHooper]

Well this was different than the early days. JGH (Stereophile) and HP(TAS) didn't worry about getting the magazine out. Sometimes my 4 per year subscription lasted 2 years. Of course they also had no worry about keeping advertisers happy because there were none. They didn't take ads. Right, wrong, delusional or enlightened it gave their opinions some credibility of not being bought and paid for at least. The magazines were a lot more entertaining as well.

I really got in to high end audio in the early 90's, around '93 or '94 as I recall.

By then Stereophile magazines were huge and got bigger as the 90's went on, just packed with pages and articles. And there seemed to be lots of different audio mags out there. I have the impression that the 90's were the golden age of high end magazines...well, at least from the publishing perspective in terms of a market. Can't remember when it ended, but obviously the encroaching internet age.

I paid little attention to audio magazines in the 70's and 80's (aside from my dad having piles of things like Stereo Review IIRC). Would I be correct that the 90's was the peak for audio mags in terms of readership/variety etc?

 

[Blumlein 88]

I really got in to high end audio in the early 90's, around '93 or '94 as I recall.

By then Stereophile magazines were huge and got bigger as the 90's went on, just packed with pages and articles. And there seemed to be lots of different audio mags out there. I have the impression that the 90's were the golden age of high end magazines...well, at least from the publishing perspective in terms of a market. Can't remember when it ended, but obviously the encroaching internet age.

I paid little attention to audio magazines in the 70's and 80's (aside from my dad having piles of things like Stereo Review IIRC). Would I be correct that the 90's was the peak for audio mags in terms of readership/variety etc?

I'm no expert, but I'd say late 70s to early 80's was the peak for variety. Whether coincidence or not introduction and success of the CD seemed to change things in the audio business. Even when Stereophile and TAS were growing or had grown in circulation they were printed in a small form size. The only reason I knew about them so early on was someone gifted subscriptions to the local library. I thought at first they were second hand donations because the new issues appeared too irregularly. The library was getting them as published however.

 

[Chrispy]

I really got in to high end audio in the early 90's, around '93 or '94 as I recall.

Were you really, though?

 

[MattHooper]

Were you really, though?

?

I believe that was when my friend played me music through his new Quad ESL 63s and it blew me away. I started reading the mags around then, checking out high end audio stores, bought my own Quad 63s, a CJ tube amp...and the journey began.

I don't know if that meets your standards? Made me happy though. I had a ball devouring all the magazines and travelling around auditioning gear and meeting other audiophiles.

 

[Doodski]

I really got in to high end audio in the early 90's, around '93 or '94 as I recall.

By then Stereophile magazines were huge and got bigger as the 90's went on, just packed with pages and articles. And there seemed to be lots of different audio mags out there. I have the impression that the 90's were the golden age of high end magazines...well, at least from the publishing perspective in terms of a market. Can't remember when it ended, but obviously the encroaching internet age.

I paid little attention to audio magazines in the 70's and 80's (aside from my dad having piles of things like Stereo Review IIRC). Would I be correct that the 90's was the peak for audio mags in terms of readership/variety etc?

I was asked many many times what I thought about X model of gear according to the Stereophile magazine or any one of those popular ones in the 90s and my answer to workmates and customers alike was, "Have not seen it. I don't read magazines or the news. I work and that is all I do." I then explained for them that I have many models to choose from (I had a massive selection of gear at the retailer I worked for.) and I know the competition and what is important is what is available for purchase and not something we cannot even purchase but is in a magazine. That worked for me very well. I was dead serious and I was right.

 

[Doodski]

Were you really, though?

Smart aZZ but I like it. Hehe.

 

[Doodski]

I had a ball devouring all the magazines and travelling around auditioning gear

I met a ton of peeps @ work that way and then I ran into them in the pubs, strip bars, restaurants, on the train etc. Just all over. It was a social occasion wherever I went. I wish I could do it again because I would do it differently and really milk it.

 

[JaMaSt]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you expect to hear something, you'll almost always hear something. I've had it happen to me more than once where I twiddled an EQ knob in a DAW that was actually inactive... but I heard something anyway.

Lol. I did something similar. Awhile back I had the Schitt Loki tone control. I was trying to determine if it affected the sound when it was in bypass. I determined that it did degradate the sound in bypass. I took a break and came back later to resume testing - turning it off then on. Only to realize (to both my horror and amusement) that before I took the break I had physically removed it from the chain by unplugging its RCAs .....

 

[Sal1950]

Fast forward to 2023 LAOCAS Annual Gala. John and I had dinner afterward. MQA came up. An interesting conversion between the victor me and John the vanquished.

To the victor go the spoils of war.

Well this was different than the early days. JGH (Stereophile) and HP(TAS) didn't worry about getting the magazine out. Sometimes my 4 per year subscription lasted 2 years. In Stereophile's first 20 years there were only 46 issues. For a time TAS was on an even slower rate of issues. Of course they also had no worry about keeping advertisers happy because there were none. They didn't take ads. (JGH "the better the ad, the worse the product.") Right, wrong, delusional or enlightened it gave their opinions some credibility of not being bought and paid for at least. The magazines were a lot more entertaining as well.

I'm no expert, but I'd say late 70s to early 80's was the peak for variety. Whether coincidence or not introduction and success of the CD seemed to change things in the audio business. Even when Stereophile and TAS were growing or had grown in circulation they were printed in a small form size. The only reason I knew about them so early on was someone gifted subscriptions to the local library. I thought at first they were second hand donations because the new issues appeared too irregularly. The library was getting them as published however.

Most excellent posts D, that is exactly the way it went.
I was a subscriber thru all but the first few issues of both and made a few nice extra bucks selling them on ebay
when I was retiring. Good thing too, those first ad-less subscriptions were expensive.

 

[pma]

Yes, at VHF, one has to pay attention to source, termination, and characteristic impedance. At audio, though...

Yeah, but the statement was “waveform in = waveform out?” and as such the statement is wrong, the view is wrong. All we can do is to compare spectra in/out limited to the audio band. And to use the tool like Deltawave. Waveform in/out is quite misleading.

 

[SIY]

And to use the tool like Deltawave. Waveform in/out is quite misleading.

If by "misleading" you mean "shows what you need to know for audio frequencies," sure.

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dbalmer/eportfolio/Nature%20of%20Science_Asimov.pdf

 

[pma]

Funny enough, isn't it?

I mean that in general technical terms are often used wrong, here. Probably unintentionally.

 

[JayGilb]

Be careful with such statements.

View attachment 357975

What was the length of the DUT cable ? At that time scale, you could be showing a simple delay.

 

[SIY]

What was the length of the DUT cable ? At that time scale, you could be showing a simple delay.

Looks like an SWR issue. It's important if you're trying to work at 50MHz. At audio, it's completely irrelevant. The point trying to be "proved" here is terminological, not physical.

 

[rdenney]

Yeah, but the statement was “waveform in = waveform out?” and as such the statement is wrong, the view is wrong. All we can do is to compare spectra in/out limited to the audio band. And to use the tool like Deltawave. Waveform in/out is quite misleading.

Spectrum is just a way to analyze a waveform. It’s a math trick that lets us unravel the time series analysis, but it’s still all about the waveform.

Rick “and Deltawave is about measuring differences in waveforms” Denney