SMSL D400EX DAC Review

[PeteL]

13kHz is quite hard to hear for any person—it’s almost like a background whine or screech very high up—not to mention there is little musical content up that high—and differences of 1dB are very hard to perceive. So yes.

Anyway, see my comments above. I am not just making this stuff up. It’s from experience. During product development, engineers, designers, and testers could not hear any difference between the built-in filter choices of the then-current ESS DAC chips. So, the ability to switch filter settings was removed from the firmware of the shipping product.

I don’t think you’re making stuff up, but I am talking about filter 4, not general statement about reconstruction filters being audible. I’ve used low pass filter that high up before ( and did product developpment too) a high order -3 dB at 16 k on a full mixed piece is audible. I am not just making this up. Harmonics are part of « musical content » unless you just count the root notes as music.

 

[Trell]

Doubtful.

You do know that 20 Hz to 20 kHz is known as the “audible band”? Why do you think it’s called that?

That does not mean everyone can hear every note, something I wrote earlier in a posts of mine that you quoted. It’s known that high frequency hearing is getting worse as we age, for various reasons.

Filters like the one I referred to is extreme but audible.

 

[TNT]

Tag the right @ and he might reply- but I can guess the answer

@amirm

Oops - thanks - and excuse to the Forum Owner for spelling your avatar wrongly.

//

 

[Billy Budapest]

Ok... let's just say it's "potentially" audible and leave it at that. I mean, these are user selectable filters anyway and the more accurate filters are available to use (unlike some other DAC's). Basically, don't use the filters that appear to affect FR negatively if it's of concern to you, set and forget. It's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to pick any difference between these filters on a good day anyway... so a bit of a non-issue.


JSmith

I totally agree.

 

[Billy Budapest]

You do know that 20 Hz to 20 kHz is known as the “audible band”? Why do you think it’s called that?

That does not mean everyone can hear every note, something I wrote earlier in a posts of mine that you quoted. It’s known that high frequency hearing is getting worse as we age, for various reasons.

Filters like the one I referred to is extreme but audible.

I know that technically 20Hz to 20kHz is the audible band, but when you are dealing with frequencies even down to 13kHz, it is not anything on the musical scale and within music playing it is probably undetectable—masked by other “real” sounds. Taking into account how small an increment 1dB is, I highly doubt it will be audible.

Anyway, we are losing sight of the forest for the trees. Just look at my original remark for what my contention is (before everything got sidetracked when talking about this one particular filter).

 

[Trell]

I know that technically 20Hz to 20kHz is the audible band, but when you are dealing with frequencies even down to 13kHz, it is not anything on the musical scale and within music playing it is probably undetectable—masked by other “real” sounds. Taking into account how small an increment 1dB is, I highly doubt it will be audible.

Anyway, we are losing sight of the forest for the trees. Just look at my original remark for what my contention is (before everything got sidetracked when talking about this one particular filter).

Did you read post #201?

 

[Billy Budapest]

Did you read post #201?

Probably.

 

[lashto]

The new AK 4499EX chip is actually two separate chips one for the analogue and one for the digital.

Wolfs measurements of the Topping E70 Velvet (AK 4499) also shows an IMD hump.

times they are a changing...

The AKM Velvet was supposed to be that 'clean' HD spectra and the lack of IMD humps. AFAIK, nobody managed to hear the difference but at least it used to be visible on measurement graphs. Looks like their "velvet" might have moved into 100% blabla territory

 

[Veri]

Looks like their "velvet" might have moved into 100% blabla territory

Don't think it was ever any different...

 

[lashto]

Don't think it was ever any different...

I am a fan of nice/clean HD spectra. May or may not be audible but as long as it's measurable, all fine with me. I do consider it a plus and a sign of good engineering. And the AKM Velvet chips used to have it.
The lack of any 'velvet' in the new 4499EX chip is quite disappointing..

 

[lashto]

I am not just making this up. Harmonics are part of « musical content » unless you just count the root notes as music.

For some reason, many do not seem to realize that the music is largely made up of those harmonics. Don't have a clear number but I would bet it's over 90%.
If you eliminate the harmonics, all you have left is a sort of beep-machine which sounds like 'nothing'

 

[mocenigo]

Yes, for build quality 400$ would be reasonable, not 1000$. Maybe the 4499-chipset is very expensive, but the Topping is half the price.

The topping seems to have one 4499EX chip, not two. I do not think that this justifies the price difference though.

 

[misterdog]

Anything, is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

 

[mocenigo]

Anything, is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

True, as well.

 

[dtaylo1066]

They probably "borrow" the engineering. They also have close to 0 cost for the customer support ('cause they offer none) and the employee wages are way lower than RME / Benchmark / Okto / UAD / MOTU / etc. You'd pay Porsche money on a Yugo when buying an 1k$ SMSL.

Your points are well taken, I just try and keep the made in China sold direct on line to the free world comments out of the mix, as one tends to start a political fire with those, and I have been roasted on other forums for my somewhat free-world leaning POV.

Of course many top brands, including audio, have taken production to China in order to financially compete and survive, though they are based in, have employees in, and design their products in the U.S. or Europe. Many companies examine, "borrow" or emulate to a degree other's technology, much of which is quite legal, and it is well known that some manufacturers, particularly in China (not just audio) clearly violate or work without concern for intellectual property rights, which is illegal and repugnant, but most difficult to legally defend against.

As to Topping, from my study of them, which is not superficial, it is clear from their and others' information, data and websites that they possess very high-quality engineering talent and utilize the best measuring and evaluation equipment in their production. I do not see them infringing on others IP. Their internal skill sets enable them to create state of the art products. They are a legitimate Chinese-based and run company that fully utilizes and leverages its location, costs therein and economies of scale to produce very high performing products and sell them at a significant discount vs. free-world products.

It seems to me that Schiit Audio is the only free-world company that can even come close to competing in cost and performance and produce in the U.S.

Such is the world we live in and the consumer must make his or her own choices on whose products they wish to purchase and why. Most make that choice with their wallet.

 

[Doodski]

It seems to me that Schiit Audio is the only free-world company that can even come close to competing in cost and performance and produce in the U.S.

JDS Labs is doing a decent job of it too.

 

[dtaylo1066]

JDS Labs is doing a decent job of it too.

That is true. I was not sure where they produced.

 

[Billy Budapest]

That is true. I was not sure where they produced.

Southern Illinois, in the St. Louis, Missouri, metropolitan area.

Don’t forget Geshelli Labs in Florida, too.

 

[srkbear]

Interesting to see how one of these new AKM TOTL chips is performing. Even more interesting would be a shoot out between this AKM EX model and the ES version with the ES9039pro that was pretty much released simultaneously. Since they are so similar in design I wonder whether differences in measurements would suggest anything about the relative performance of these two industry flagships?

 

[dtaylo1066]

Southern Illinois, in the St. Louis, Missouri, metropolitan area.

Don’t forget Geshelli Labs in Florida,