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Salk Speakers

q3cpma

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1) I'm not about to tell Jim how to run his business. 2)
Didn't suggest that, just pointing out that you doing such measurements don't change anything about them not being available (thus my original comment of waiting for more data on more models).
Do you really know that in a 2-way "there's too much compromise in tonality" unless you go to extreme measures with the woofer size or crossover point? Have you actually conducted listening tests, or are you just going on jigs and jags in the Spinorama directivity index and assuming that will cause tonal coloration?
I hate to quote Olive & Toole to someone who obviously knows their work, but the preference score, as flawed as it is, includes global and local smoothness of the predicted in-room response for a reason. This score was determined via the listening tests.
In addition, I think the importance of controlled off-axis response has been exaggerated, at least for angles greater than 30 - 40 degrees
I do agree that direct sound is massively more important than what the PIR may show, but this is obviously something that depends on listening distance; same for power response.
Are you saying electronic music sounds crappy on wide-dispersion speakers?
I don't have enough datapoints by myself to say so, but I did have that experience when comparing Dali Zensor 1 (relatively wide) with Genelec 8030Cs and only extreme metal. I mostly quote @echopraxia who seems to be quite reasonable while having experience with both very wide directivity speakers (Ascend Sierra RAAL Towers, Revel Salon 2) along with medium ones (Neumann KH310, Genelec 8351B), all with excellent on and off-axis accuracy.
If so, you perhaps should have paid a visit to my room at CAF last weekend when someone brought in a CD loaded with the stuff
Is that supposed to prove anything? As you can see, I'm in France.

Anyway, you asked for listening tests, do you have any study grade ones about the relative important of dispersion width and smoothness? (in stereo, please, mono will benefit too much, otherwise).
 
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Dennis Murphy

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Didn't suggest that, just pointing out that you doing such measurements don't change anything about them not being available (thus my original comment of waiting for more data on more models).

I hate to quote Olive & Toole to someone who obviously knows their work, but the preference score, as flawed as it is, includes global and local smoothness of the predicted in-room response for a reason. This score was determined via the listening tests.

I do agree that direct sound is massively more important than what the PIR may show, but this is obviously something that depends on listening distance; same for power response.

I don't have enough datapoints by myself to say so, but I did have that experience when comparing Dali Zensor 1 (relatively wide) with Genelec 8030Cs and only extreme metal. I mostly quote @echopraxia who seems to be quite reasonable while having experience with both very wide directivity speakers (Ascend Sierra RAAL Towers, Revel Salon 2) along with medium ones (Neumann KH310, Genelec 8351B), all with excellent on and off-axis accuracy.

Is that supposed to prove anything? As you can see, I'm in France.

Anyway, you asked for listening tests, do you have any study grade ones about the relative important of dispersion width and smoothness? (in stereo, please, mono will benefit too much, otherwise).
My position is that the science just isn't there to conclude much about the relative merits of very broad dispersion speakers. I therefore get a little edgy when I see the Harman research taken as gospel when it comes to debates in this area. Most of the speakers tested in that research weren't really broad dispersion designs, and Harman obviously liked the results for the Salon, which was one of the broader dispersion models (although not as broad as the BMR series). And when don't even ask when it comes to vertical dispersion. We don't have a clue what the "right" pattern is, which Toole pointed out in his interview with Erin.
 

q3cpma

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My position is that the science just isn't there to conclude much about the relative merits of very broad dispersion speakers. I therefore get a little edgy when I see the Harman research taken as gospel when it comes to debates in this area. Most of the speakers tested in that research weren't really broad dispersion designs
Then we agree. On this place at least, it shouldn't seem strange to put greater weight on a known "important" parameter (smooth directivity) than on an unknown (low directivity); and thought by some people to be genre or recording technique dependant.
 

Gyosa1

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I have Salk Supercharged SongTowers , the Veracity ST’s little brother - 5” woofer vs 6” -
highly recommended …. Same Raal ribbon tweeter.

absolutely love them …
paired with a PS Audio S300 amp and a Cambridge Audio 851n serving duty as a preamp/streamer.

bk
 

Dennis Murphy

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Then we agree. On this place at least, it shouldn't seem strange to put greater weight on a known "important" parameter (smooth directivity) than on an unknown (low directivity); and thought by some people to be genre or recording technique dependant.
I agree that a lot of people on the forum will do just that, but I can only state it doesn't always work out that way. Amir has recommended speakers with directivity errors (including one of mine), and if good spins were a sufficient condition for superior sound, the ELAC would sound better than it does. What I think we can agree on is that the onset of ragged directivity fairly early in the off-axis response is to be avoided.
 

DanielT

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Is this tweeter in them?

SATORI TW29TXN-B / TeXtreme


Wow!

I would rate the harmonic distortion of the TW29TXN-B as "very low", one of the lowest I have ever seen in tweeters. Excellent!


Looks yummy.:)
 
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Dennis Murphy

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Is this tweeter in them?

SATORI TW29TXN-B / TeXtreme


Wow!

I would rate the harmonic distortion of the TW29TXN-B as "very low", one of the lowest I have ever seen in tweeters. Excellent!


Looks yummy.:)
No--Salk uses the older but very similar beryllium dome Satori TW29BN-B . In the hificompass review, the measured performance is very, very similar. The reviewer's subjective comments may be insightful or total BS. I'm pretty suspicious of listening tests that are performed by using two different tweeters in the same speaker with no crossover adjustments.
 

DanielT

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No--Salk uses the older but very similar beryllium dome Satori TW29BN-B . In the hificompass review, the measured performance is very, very similar. The reviewer's subjective comments may be insightful or total BS. I'm pretty suspicious of listening tests that are performed by using two different tweeters in the same speaker with no crossover adjustments.
Aha ok.

Of course, you should not change tweeter without further examining suitable component values.But yummy anyway from my side, considering you say they are so similar.:)
 

stren

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Salk using Purifi woofers and Satori beryllium tweeters on their BePure 2 tower speakers.

A shame they do not provide more measurements like a complete spin.


a.jpg

These are nice looking - I'm confused though in the design. Shouldn't the tweeter and woofer be closer together? If the 2nd woofer is still a 2 way, shouldn't it be in a MTM setup? With this setup my expectation would be that the bottom woofer would be crossed over lower than the upper? Might be stupid questions so apologies if so.
 

Dennis Murphy

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These are nice looking - I'm confused though in the design. Shouldn't the tweeter and woofer be closer together? If the 2nd woofer is still a 2 way, shouldn't it be in a MTM setup? With this setup my expectation would be that the bottom woofer would be crossed over lower than the upper? Might be stupid questions so apologies if so.
I think you may be confusing woofer location rules for an MTM with those for an MMT. In an MTM, it's important to keep the two woofers as close together as possible, which also means they'll be very near the tweeter. Otherwise, the destructive off-axis interference between the two woofers will be a real problem. With an MMT, the woofers are already next to each other. Depending on the crossover frequecy (which is quite low on the Purifi MMT, you can get away with greater spacing between the woofers and tweeters, and placing them nearer the floor reduces floor bounce cancellation a little. I don't think the results are in on which design is superior--MMT or MTM. An MTM would have to be taller in order to get the tweeter up to a normal listening height.
 
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rman9

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I own the Song 3 Encore with the Satori Beryllium tweeter and have enjoyed them for about 2 years now. Aside from being a truly full range speaker, the fit and finish are wonderful. A modest setup but very pleasing
That is an awesome finish.. Beautiful..
 
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rman9

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Thanks, Jim does such beautiful job at finish work.
I have heard people say that, and also watching clips on youtube I get that.. I am waiting on the Veracity ST in Dyed Maple finish.. It's been a while since April of last year.. I'll just have to be patient :)
 

Everett T

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I have heard people say that, and also watching clips on youtube I get that.. I am waiting on the Veracity ST in Dyed Maple finish.. It's been a while since April of last year.. I'll just have to be patient :)
Nice! They're worth the wait IMHO and the ST is a damn fine speaker that I'd own any day of the week.
 
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rman9

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Nice! They're worth the wait IMHO and the ST is a damn fine speaker that I'd own any day of the week.
Question on ribbon tweeters, just curious as to how they sound.. Have you heard them? The Song 3 don't have them right? This will be first my pair with that type of tweeters. I have heard pros and cons of that.. Also, what kind of amp are you driving yours with?
 

Everett T

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Question on ribbon tweeters, just curious as to how they sound.. Have you heard them? The Song 3 don't have them right? This will be first my pair with that type of tweeters. I have heard pros and cons of that.. Also, what kind of amp are you driving yours with?
I have BMRs with the transformerless RAAL and really like the openness (I've owned a few speakers with ribbons and planar magnetic) they create. Honestly I can't say I prefer the Be or the RAAL, the Be has a different type of openness but both are enjoyable.

I'm powering the Salks with a QSC DCA1622 with the Denon 3600 as the pre amp. The BMRs are powered by outlaw 2200 monoblocks currently. Richard hast the STs IIRC and at one point had a BK ST140, IIRC.
 

Dennis Murphy

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Question on ribbon tweeters, just curious as to how they sound.. Have you heard them? The Song 3 don't have them right? This will be first my pair with that type of tweeters. I have heard pros and cons of that.. Also, what kind of amp are you driving yours with?
The Song 3's use the RAAL 64-10 ribbon, the same one used in the BMR series.
 
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rman9

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The Song 3's use the RAAL 64-10 ribbon, the same one used in the BMR series.
For some reason I had assumed, ribbon tweeters are always rectangular or a square.. In the Song 3 encore photograph I thought, I saw a circular configuration for the tweeter..
 
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rman9

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I have BMRs with the transformerless RAAL and really like the openness (I've owned a few speakers with ribbons and planar magnetic) they create. Honestly I can't say I prefer the Be or the RAAL, the Be has a different type of openness but both are enjoyable.

I'm powering the Salks with a QSC DCA1622 with the Denon 3600 as the pre amp. The BMRs are powered by outlaw 2200 monoblocks currently. Richard hast the STs IIRC and at one point had a BK ST140, IIRC.
Again, the finish looks real beautiful, exquisite and classy.. Nice job picking that finish.. I had a hard time trying to make up my mind.. I can't wait for the ST's. I am hoping they will pair well with the mc equipment.. How far apart are the speakers? I can go anywhere from 2 meters to 4/5 meters in the room..
 
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