Salk Speakers

[Everett T]

thanks!! I am really looking forward to listening to the STs. Jim has been extremely nice in answering my questions with detailed answers. I'll try to pm swerd.. Thanks for that..

Sorry he is @R Swerdlow on this forum, got confused with another....

 

[q3cpma]

If it were me, I'd wait for more trustworthy measurements, as their on-axis FR was very different from Amir's for the WOW1 (not showing the port cancellation that can't be solved with EQ), and they don't provide any off-axis data. The general lack of waveguide is also worrying, even if this is an intentional (but wrong, at least on 2-way speakers) design choice.

 

[rman9]

Sorry he is @R Swerdlow on this forum, got confused with another....

Thanks again!!

 

[rman9]

Thanks for letting me know that it could take 5 months.. I was starting to get a little worried that it's been close to three months and it is still only at stage 2 of the process

Sorry to be a bother, does the progress of the speaker build get faster in the last month? It's a little over three months and it's still at cabinet glued. And I see so many steps past that before the final product.. I guess, I am just impatient.. Every other piece of equipment is in its place and just waiting for the ST's . Do you mind telling me what finish did you go for your STs?

 

[Matias]

Salk using Purifi woofers and Satori beryllium tweeters on their BePure 2 tower speakers.

A shame they do not provide more measurements like a complete spin.

Salk Sound

salksound.com

 

[Colonel7]

Salk using Purifi woofers and Satori beryllium tweeters on their BePure 2 tower speakers.

A shame they do not provide more measurements like a complete spin.

Salk Sound

salksound.com

These were debuted at Capital Audiofest. I gave them a long listen and my subjective impression was great. I think they'll be demoed at any of the bigger US shows that will occur in the next year. Crossover by Dennis Murphy

 

[Dennis Murphy]

These were debuted at Capital Audiofest. I gave them a long listen and my subjective impression was great. I think they'll be demoed at any of the bigger US shows that will occur in the next year. Crossover by Dennis Murphy

I'm happy to hear you liked them. Neither Jim nor I are set up to do full Spin measurements. I take a full battery of horizontal off-axis measurements and fiddle and diddle to smooth out the power response. Vertical measurements don't tell me much because no one really knows what the optimal vertical dispersion pattern is. One problem with a design like this is that the speaker will measure very differently at one meter than at the design distance of 3 meters due to the position of the two woofers. You have to rely on the software simulation because normal quasi-anechoic tools like Praxis can't be used beyond about 50" in a normal measuring environment. If I had $100,000 lying around, I would definitely buy me a Klippel machine so I could validate the simulations more accurately.

 

[fineMen]

... Vertical measurements don't tell me much because no one really knows what the optimal vertical dispersion pattern is. ... design like this is that the speaker will measure very differently at one meter than at the design distance of 3 meters due to the position of the two woofers. ...

Deep nulls off axis around the x-over frequency are obviously preferred by many. Stereo is a 1-dimensional simulation of a real soundfield anyway, hence to decide to concentrate on, say the lateral dispersion seems to be a natural choice.

Regarding the two woofers I could propose a spinorama solution. If the spinorama is o/k, then and only then the total sound including reverberation is in order. At least if directivity is predictable as with woofers. Vice versa, if the total sound including reverberation is in order, then the spinorama is o/k. Conclusion: measure the total sound including reverberation in a regular room. If in order that proves that the spinorama, once measured, would show an o/k result.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Deep nulls off axis around the x-over frequency are obviously preferred by many. Stereo is a 1-dimensional simulation of a real soundfield anyway, hence to decide to concentrate on, say the lateral dispersion seems to be a natural choice.

Regarding the two woofers I could propose a spinorama solution. If the spinorama is o/k, then and only then the total sound including reverberation is in order. At least if directivity is predictable as with woofers. Vice versa, if the total sound including reverberation is in order, then the spinorama is o/k. Conclusion: measure the total sound including reverberation in a regular room. If in order that proves that the spinorama, once measured, would show an o/k result.

I guess you can do that kind of total sound measurement using the "All" feature of OmniMic. I'll give that a try if I ever find time.

 

[Wunderphones]

I've been waiting on a pair of Salk BMR Monitors for nine months now, so they must be fairly popular.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I've been waiting on a pair of Salk BMR Monitors for nine months now, so they must be fairly popular.

All of Jim's speaker models are taking that long. Not only is he swamped with orders, but he's getting hit hard with parts shortages.

 

[Wunderphones]

All of Jim's speaker models are taking that long. Not only is he swamped with orders, but he's getting hit hard with parts shortages.

Oh, yeah. When I said "they" must be popular, I meant Salk generally, not just the BMRs.

I'm okay, though. I have certainly waited longer.

 

[Wolf]

I've known Jim and Dennis for quite awhile now. I've never come away from a listen on one of theirs that left me thinking they could have been better. Jim's cabinet work is indeed top notch.

 

[NoSnakeOil2]

I'm happy to hear you liked them. Neither Jim nor I are set up to do full Spin measurements. I take a full battery of horizontal off-axis measurements and fiddle and diddle to smooth out the power response. Vertical measurements don't tell me much because no one really knows what the optimal vertical dispersion pattern is. One problem with a design like this is that the speaker will measure very differently at one meter than at the design distance of 3 meters due to the position of the two woofers. You have to rely on the software simulation because normal quasi-anechoic tools like Praxis can't be used beyond about 50" in a normal measuring environment. If I had $100,000 lying around, I would definitely buy me a Klippel machine so I could validate the simulations more accurately.

Dennis, you don't have $100k lying around? Have you checked the couch?)))

 

[Matias]

I'm happy to hear you liked them. Neither Jim nor I are set up to do full Spin measurements. I take a full battery of horizontal off-axis measurements and fiddle and diddle to smooth out the power response. Vertical measurements don't tell me much because no one really knows what the optimal vertical dispersion pattern is. One problem with a design like this is that the speaker will measure very differently at one meter than at the design distance of 3 meters due to the position of the two woofers. You have to rely on the software simulation because normal quasi-anechoic tools like Praxis can't be used beyond about 50" in a normal measuring environment. If I had $100,000 lying around, I would definitely buy me a Klippel machine so I could validate the simulations more accurately.

Loan them to Erin @hardisj and problem solved!

 

[rman9]

Oh, yeah. When I said "they" must be popular, I meant Salk generally, not just the BMRs.

I'm okay, though. I have certainly waited longer.

Going on over seven months now for a pair of STs...

 

[Dennis Murphy]

If it were me, I'd wait for more trustworthy measurements, as their on-axis FR was very different from Amir's for the WOW1 (not showing the port cancellation that can't be solved with EQ), and they don't provide any off-axis data. The general lack of waveguide is also worrying, even if this is an intentional (but wrong, at least on 2-way speakers) design choice.

The main differencre in the measurements was the front slotted port peak, which Praxis didn't pick up. The plot Jim has up for the Purifi tower is a good[-faith mistake I'll have to take up with him. He tried to get back as far as possible in order to get the proper phase relationships between the woofers, and between the woofers and the tweeter. He went back too far and Praxis lost resolution in the lower frequencies. The result is too much smoothing and an upward tilt in the frequency response. I've sent Jim complete off-axis responses for most of his speakers, but he doesn't think most of his clients are interested. As for wave guides, Jim and I avoid them even in 2-ways. Rather than spark another debate, I would simply invite anyone in the area to drop my listening room and compare the ELAC DBR-62 with any 2-way speaker I have lying around, including my $300/pair Affordable Accuracy models. The ELAC's measure beautifully, but the wave guide squishes the sound and there's a very noticeable lack of air around the instruments. I'm not saying that wave guides can't be made to work, but it's difficult.

 

[q3cpma]

I've sent Jim complete off-axis responses for most of his speakers, but he doesn't think most of his clients are interested.

His current clients, maybe. I don't see the point of discarding them if they're already done, put them in a link to avoid web page clutter, at least; otherwise, it may look like cherry-picking data that make the products shine.

As for wave guides, Jim and I avoid them even in 2-ways. Rather than spark another debate, I would simply invite anyone in the area to drop my listening room and compare the ELAC DBR-62 with any 2-way speaker I have lying around, including my $300/pair Affordable Accuracy models. The ELAC's measure beautifully, but the wave guide squishes the sound and there's a very noticeable lack of air around the instruments.

But you get all the inconvenients of mismatch between on and off-axis tonality. Really, in a 3-way, you can have wide and relatively well behaved directivity, but in 2-ways, there's too much compromise in tonality, unless you do like March Audio (Sointuva) or Dynaudio (LYD5) did and use a very big tweeter with a "small" woofer and/or an extreme crossover frequency.
To be honest, do you listen to any of the genres that are reported by some members having both wide and medium/narrow directivity speakers as not being fit for wide directivity (e.g. electronic music, heavy metal)? Do you think your and Jim's customer base has quite eclectic tastes too? The question may seem loaded, but it is sincere, as the "wood fetishism" (no offense intended, they're very pretty, though I think that wood clashes with raw drivers) is certainly an important part of the brand and I don't usually associate its members with these kind of genres.

I'm not saying that wave guides can't be made to work, but it's difficult.

I do agree, and it may be better left to companies with people trained in FEA software. Though Augerpro showed that you can manage some results with enough trial and error.

 

[RHG55]

I ordered a Supercharged SongCenter with Teak finish about 5 years ago. It took a while for the speaker to be made and for it to get delivered, but it was beautiful and it sounds great. I'm extremely satisfied and use it every day when watching movies or TV in our living/dinning room.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

His current clients, maybe. I don't see the point of discarding them if they're already done, put them in a link to avoid web page clutter, at least; otherwise, it may look like cherry-picking data that make the products shine.

But you get all the inconvenients of mismatch between on and off-axis tonality. Really, in a 3-way, you can have wide and relatively well behaved directivity, but in 2-ways, there's too much compromise in tonality, unless you do like March Audio (Sointuva) or Dynaudio (LYD5) did and use a very big tweeter with a "small" woofer and/or an extreme crossover frequency.
To be honest, do you listen to any of the genres that are reported by some members having both wide and medium/narrow directivity speakers as not being fit for wide directivity (e.g. electronic music, heavy metal)? Do you think your and Jim's customer base has quite eclectic tastes too? The question may seem loaded, but it is sincere, as the "wood fetishism" (no offense intended, they're very pretty, though I think that wood clashes with raw drivers) is certainly an important part of the brand and I don't usually associate its members with these kind of genres.

I do agree, and it may be better left to companies with people trained in FEA software. Though Augerpro showed that you can manage some results with enough trial and error.

1) I'm not about to tell Jim how to run his business. 2) Do you really know that in a 2-way "there's too much compromise in tonality" unless you go to extreme measures with the woofer size or crossover point? Have you actually conducted listening tests, or are you just going on jigs and jags in the Spinorama directivity index and assuming that will cause tonal coloration? There's what I think is a faulty assumption at work here. It's true that tweeters will have wider dispersion at typical crossover points than the partnered woofer. But you can't leap from that fact to assuming the speaker will sound better if you narrow the dispersion of the tweeter to match the woofer. What you probably need to do, but for all practical purposes can't, is to widen the dispersion of the woofer to match the tweeter. My experience has been that it's better to preserve the wider tweeter dispersion and to choose crossover points and to contour the on-axis response a bit to avoid serious flare-ups in the off-axis response. The off-axis response still won't be as controlled as with a wave guide, but the speaker will sound more like the real thing. In addition, I think the importance of controlled off-axis response has been exaggerated, at least for angles greater than 30 - 40 degrees. Listen to a good MTM that's designed for vertical positioning. Now turn it on its side. Do you now suddenly hear serious tonal coloration? I sure don't, even though the horizontal off-axis response will be pretty horrific at wide angles. I'm not really following your kind of snarky comments about music genres. Are you saying electronic music sounds crappy on wide-dispersion speakers? If so, you perhaps should have paid a visit to my room at CAF last weekend when someone brought in a CD loaded with the stuff.