It is gambling:
The Onkyo AVR are coming in very small quantities.
There is no spare parts.
The original Onkyo Japan company is shrinking to a tiny business (Sake vibrator???)
The available units are very close to the 2019 models with addition of Dirac and hdmi 2.1
The relay that was clicking in 2019 is still clicking
The power amplification that had some 4 ohm issues is still the same.
Well, as my 10 years old Yamaha AVR is still running properly, I will wait one more year.
Will Onkyo still be in AVR business?
Will Denon/Marantz be disbanded by the new owner?
Will Yamaha decide to do a front facia redesign and a gain in the S/N ratio?
This hobby is really not any more what it was in the 80's.
I should have kept my first Marantz!
In order:
Not such small quantities, as people that want them are now finding them in the USA - Integra AVR's first shipment has arrived in Australia.
Clearly it took them a while to get set up and going in the now Sharp owned factory, and they are not the only ones who have been suffering logistical problems - things are however getting better.
Service Channel is NOT in place internationally - not sure of the USA situation - parts are scarce - but this too relates to logistics and the factory situation - things will get better.
Support for past models, will depend on parts that are already scarce, and will become more so - I cannot get parts for my 2008 Onkyo or my 2013 Integra.
Original Onkyo company is no longer relevant, they sold this business to Voxx & Sharp.
Yes they are using the same chassis and most of the same design as past models... this is no different to other AVR manufacturers.... the Denon's as an example, have similar commonalities from the current X3700 going back to the X3300 (5 or 6 years ago?).... like automakers, there is much evolutionary change within a model range over time, while the core of it remains the same.... simple economies of manufacturing. (and if it ain't broken!) - Dirace is a huge step change - as is to be expected in this day and age, real change happens in software - the hardware only needs to change if required for the software!
Don't know about the relay clicking - but I believe I have heard similar issues from owners of multiple brands - this may be a generic issue with current HDMI switchers that are built into the AVR's... and not related to a specific brand.
Power amp 4 ohm issue is an over sensitive protection system... tests on Yamaha AVR's and other brands have shown similar issues. They are playing safe, I consider it less than ideal, but there have been very very few reports from users actually using these AVR's (the last 4 or 5 generations of Onkyo, Pioneer and Integra have all had the same protection / nanny circuit) of encountering the issue in real use. - So clearly it is well targeted at its market, and achieving its goals.
The kind of users that have the sort of speakers that might trigger it (not only 4 ohm, but difficult loads dipping down below 2 ohm) - are unlikely to use the internal amps, and probably already have their amplification sorted..... (like me).
If my existing Onkyo AVR had not released its magic smoke after 8 years of service, I would not have ordered a new one - but as it is I hope to get a new Integra delivered any day. - And yes the Yamaha's have an excellent reputation for reliability... and they did excellent work in years past on surround effects - but their YPAO RoomEQ software is not so great by all accounts - they need to do more work on their software.
Will Onkyo still be in business - wrong question, really it is : " will Voxx still be in business" - Voxx's big brands in the past have been Klipsch, AR, Magnat and a few others - now they have the Onkyo stable to fill out the repertoir... based on the other brands they have, it seems like a good deal / good synergy.
Denon / Marantz - the SU situation is quite seperate from Onkyo - they are quite successful in the market, and currently dominate their core market segment.... we shall see what the future brings, but they are doing well in the AVR space, so I feel certain that they will continue to compete in that space, whether that is as Denon or Marantz or both.
Yamaha facia and S/N - fashions come and fashions go... SNR... they could all improve - look at what the SOTA is (AHB2) there is plenty of room for improvement.... but if they could achieve 96db SNR I would be satisfied. (I would like to see improvements in Jitter... I think that is where a lot of the SNR improvement is to be found)
The hobby's development since the 80's has been driven by Media technology development - discreet channel encoding and decoding (Software) and by RoomEQ (software again)... The best prepro's of the late 80's and 90's (Lexicon) had specifications that are in many ways similar to what we see today in AVR's - but now they are mainstream mass-market... and they are incredibly cheap when you consider $ for $ what money was worth then and now. In the 80's I had a Fosgate Dolby surround unit, then a Lexicon DC1, briefly a Marantz Surround unit, and later an MC1, with the advent of HDMI I finally upgraded to an AVR from Onkyo in 2008.... it's HDMI board failed a few years back, but its processing still works (via SPDIF) and it still is an excellent sounding unit.
A 1980's surround unit, even from very late in the 80's, cannot decode and play current software, doesn't have RoomEQ, it may sound great within it's limitations - but like the 1980's IBM XT computer - it cannot run the software you will be purchasing (or streaming) today.
On the other hand... really good amps from the 1980's are still really good amps today.
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