Review and Measurements of Oppo UDP-205 UHD Player

[Descartes]

take a look at Reavon, full disclosure, I do not work for the company in case you are wondering!

 

[Open Mind Audio]

The one I saw sold for 10k was "new", as in never even unboxed.


I think it was 1200$ on launch

Yes, and it was priced at $1200 to the end. I bought one in the final round of sales, when Oppo made you enter a lottery and limited sales to one UDP 205 per registered customer.

Dollar for dollar, this was the best electronics or audio investment I've ever made. The DAC performance is still outstanding, it works as a Roon endpoint, and it plays multi-channel audio like a champ. On top of all this, I'm presently using mine as a preamp for the HT setup. I will probably revert to a regular HT preamp someday, but everything's working just fine at present. For TV and movies, it's great, with the added bonus of superb audio, when used with software-based volume (through Roon or JRiver).

The only complaint I've ever had with it is that it will not stream multichannel via Roon, and Oppo never did a firmware update to fix this. Fortunately, it does stream bit-perfect multichannel audio via JRiver. Just an amazing little machine all around.

 

[Open Mind Audio]

take a look at Reavon, full disclosure, I do not work for the company in case you are wondering!

Would be interested to see Amir test a Reavon, especially the top-of-the-line unit. It's nice to see a company making an effort in this space.

 

[tmtomh]

I just feel over all it's just a hype train. Not dismissing the quality of the unit or its potential, but seems like a lot of things about are extremely exaggerated vs todays day and age. If this unit was still dominating in every aspect sure, I could give it that. However, I personally feel there's nothing extremely special going on and digital has come a long way clearly.

My streamer, pi2aes, was about 275 total. Earlier versions when it first came out before the hype was 200. So when I mention a streamer I am not implying I own a 4000 dollar streamer. I own a volumio primo streamer as well, and I purchased this prior to knowing about the topping streamer and it's main utility to me was USB output to a dac from a streamer. I wish to use my own dac in my second system and there's no way for me to have my pi2aes reach that distance besides physically moving each and every time and generally I listen to both my systems on a daily basis.

Even though I do have a level of gripe with ESS dacs, which the volumio posses, even the internal dac on that unit is great and has definitely created improvement.

I am certain even the blue node is good enough to beat out a cd player as well, even though it's been shown measurements wise the pi2aes is better than probably anything near it's price range. Golden sound said it's better than a 4000 dollar streamer he has heard.

My somewhat false hope was that so many people have told me CD playback is the ultimate digital experience, and this wasn't from the ASR community. But I am certain some people here would definitely feel that way too if they never had a quality streamer. Man you can get away with just a basic pi streamer and get decent performance for 30 dollars.

So really what's left is just video and audio playback using hdmi and your AVR or processor gets the final say, so not really sure what this is all about. In addition, personally I only run audio to my AVR and video directly from the player to the TV. I am not trying to add another step of possible degradation

I don't disagree with anything you say here really. But a lot of the praise for the Oppo machines, particularly the UDP-205, is IMHO not a hype train. Instead, it's about a couple of particular use cases: 1. high-performance analogue output of unconverted DSD content and full-resolution PCM content from SACDs and DVD-As, respectively; and 2. high-performance multichannel analogue output plus digital video output from a single device.

It's about having a high-quality stereo and multichannel DAC and good quality analogue output stages in a single machine that can play multiple disc formats and stream digital files while providing source selection and a high-quality, digitally lossless volume control.

Remember that the price premium of the 205 is all about the audio section - the video section is essentially identical to the 203, which cost about half the price.

And while an AV receiver (not to mention modern TVs) might make digital video processing a solved problem available for commodity prices, this is not the case when it comes to AV receivers and audio processing. As Amir's tests have shown, AV receivers tend to contain multiple weak points in the audio chain, with sometimes-mediocre DAC, preamp, and/or processing stages, and sometimes without the ability to truly bypass all the processing or internal digital downsampling. With a device like the Oppo 205, you get a solid 115dB SINAD (if memory serves) confirmed out of those XLR analogue outputs, and you get a high degree of confidence that the unit's volume control and internal processing is not futzing with the integrity of the signal.

And of course you get an unmolested DSD signal from the surface of the SACD disc through to the internal DAC and out to the analogue stage - no internal conversion to PCM, and no degradation in noise, distortion, or jitter as we've seen in measurements of HDMI de-embedders.

Now, to be clear, I fully acknowledge that 115dB SINAD is no longer something you have to spend over $1000 to get from a DAC, and I also acknowledge that having an all in one unit capable of playing physical discs like SACDs is a niché use case. (Although having bought a 205 at non-inflated prices before they were discontinued, I will say it's pretty darned convenient: universal disc transport, USB streamer, first-rate DAC, and digital preamp with remote and high-quality volume control all in one component - I love it!)

IMHO the Oppo 205 was prized by many folks for good reasons, even though those reasons were not important to everyone. There might be some hype on the fringes of that, but IMHO hype is not the main factor.

 

[Ra1zel]

And of course you get an unmolested DSD signal from the surface of the SACD disc through to the internal DAC and out to the analogue stage - no internal conversion to PCM, and no degradation in noise, distortion, or jitter as we've seen in measurements of HDMI de-embedders.

Very important point, I would like to note that only SACD players with similar or better SINAD that I know of are:
Accuphase CD/DP 1000 combo - 45k € (lol)
Metronome AQWO - even worse since performance claims are complete nonsense like -140dB THD+N

So it looks pretty rough, either find Oppo somehow or live with mediocre performance of denons and marantz, or... rip your SACDs

 

[MacCali]

Very important point, I would like to note that only SACD players with similar or better SINAD that I know of are:
Accuphase CD/DP 1000 combo - 45k € (lol)
Metronome AQWO - even worse since performance claims are complete nonsense like -140dB THD+N

So it looks pretty rough, either find Oppo somehow or live with mediocre performance of denons and marantz, or... rip your SACDs

This is a very valid and point I did not know. Which may definitely increase the value, however is this not replaceable by another SACD player with digital outputs? Or does it not exist?

The reavon 200 does SACD

@Descartes I was really looking into that player man, but I got a whole bunch of information, direct from the company and distributor, which I posted on here.

Seems like the sinad does fall short for analog outputs but not by a lot, the distributor told me the balanced output is 2v and the company said the balanced output is 8v. Seems like the distributor is more accurate, since even Panasonic did 2v out. Not even sure why they would not maintain standard output voltage.

I will post the link to my thread on the edit. All in all it pointed that the Panasonic was better, but in my case use all I have are standard CDs. Which may have been why I was told steer clear.

But back to my original reply here, not sure if the reavon does SACD, but if it did I can imagine it’s digital output would not be mediocre and just plug it to your dac and you are good to go. *200 model has SACD capability

I have a feeling that the 1000 dollar CDT-8 pro with i2s out will probably out perform or increase potential audible characteristics with a decent dac. D70s/x26pro, not sure if the pin layout is the same, but we can check that.

 

[MacCali]

I don't disagree with anything you say here really. But a lot of the praise for the Oppo machines, particularly the UDP-205, is IMHO not a hype train. Instead, it's about a couple of particular use cases: 1. high-performance analogue output of unconverted DSD content and full-resolution PCM content from SACDs and DVD-As, respectively; and 2. high-performance multichannel analogue output plus digital video output from a single device.

It's about having a high-quality stereo and multichannel DAC and good quality analogue output stages in a single machine that can play multiple disc formats and stream digital files while providing source selection and a high-quality, digitally lossless volume control.

Remember that the price premium of the 205 is all about the audio section - the video section is essentially identical to the 203, which cost about half the price.

And while an AV receiver (not to mention modern TVs) might make digital video processing a solved problem available for commodity prices, this is not the case when it comes to AV receivers and audio processing. As Amir's tests have shown, AV receivers tend to contain multiple weak points in the audio chain, with sometimes-mediocre DAC, preamp, and/or processing stages, and sometimes without the ability to truly bypass all the processing or internal digital downsampling. With a device like the Oppo 205, you get a solid 115dB SINAD (if memory serves) confirmed out of those XLR analogue outputs, and you get a high degree of confidence that the unit's volume control and internal processing is not futzing with the integrity of the signal.

And of course you get an unmolested DSD signal from the surface of the SACD disc through to the internal DAC and out to the analogue stage - no internal conversion to PCM, and no degradation in noise, distortion, or jitter as we've seen in measurements of HDMI de-embedders.

Now, to be clear, I fully acknowledge that 115dB SINAD is no longer something you have to spend over $1000 to get from a DAC, and I also acknowledge that having an all in one unit capable of playing physical discs like SACDs is a niché use case. (Although having bought a 205 at non-inflated prices before they were discontinued, I will say it's pretty darned convenient: universal disc transport, USB streamer, first-rate DAC, and digital preamp with remote and high-quality volume control all in one component - I love it!)

IMHO the Oppo 205 was prized by many folks for good reasons, even though those reasons were not important to everyone. There might be some hype on the fringes of that, but IMHO hype is not the main factor.

As I stated I am not trying to undermine the unit’s potential. Not saying it’s bad, but I see 4-5k for this and basically to sum up your point it’s an AIO situation.

If we break it down, as I was saying you can probably get away with like $2000 pre tax. Reavon 200 or any other comparable SACD player with digital outputs and 30 dollar pi player + dac, you are set with better measurements.

Oppo itself is out of it. They see we all still seek this and they are bsing. If you see your units selling for 3x what they were just bring it back for 2k and make money wouldn’t doubt they would sell out simply on pre orders if they returned

 

[Adi777]

Very important point, I would like to note that only SACD players with similar or better SINAD that I know of are:
Accuphase CD/DP 1000 combo - 45k € (lol)
Metronome AQWO - even worse since performance claims are complete nonsense like -140dB THD+N

So it looks pretty rough, either find Oppo somehow or live with mediocre performance of denons and marantz, or... rip your SACDs

Maybe Reavon 200?

 

[tmtomh]

As I stated I am not trying to undermine the unit’s potential. Not saying it’s bad, but I see 4-5k for this and basically to sum up your point it’s an AIO situation.

If we break it down, as I was saying you can probably get away with like $2000 pre tax. Reavon 200 or any other comparable SACD player with digital outputs and 30 dollar pi player + dac, you are set with better measurements.

Oppo itself is out of it. They see we all still seek this and they are bsing. If you see your units selling for 3x what they were just bring it back for 2k and make money wouldn’t doubt they would sell out simply on pre orders if they returned

I understand you're not trying to undermine the unit's potential - and to be clear, I certainly agree that the current secondary market prices of $2k-$3500k for these units are not a good value compared to what else you can get on the market.

But when it comes to the particular use case of SACD, you are again missing the point. SACD will only output digitally from an HDMI output. That means a current-model disc transport that will play SACD but only has a digital output requires an external DAC with an HDMI input. Those exist in two kinds of components: 1. AV receivers, and 2. outboard, standalone DACs with HDMI input. With the former, I have already noted the problems: mediocre performance and no assurance that the DSD stream won't be converted to PCM and downsampled or otherwise run through processing before it goes into the amplifier stage. For the latter, the problem is that there are very few standalone DACs with HDMI inputs, and they tend to be expensive (hence my reference to HDMI de-embedders in my prior comment).

To be clear, I don't believe that one needs SACD in order to have hi-fi sound reproduction; and I don't believe that good-quality, properly implemented SACD/DSD to PCM conversion degrades the sound in an audible manner. And there are no doubt AV receivers out there that, despite their mediocre DAC, pre/processor, and power-amp measurements, can still produce audibly transparent results with any digital audio input you throw at them.

But IF one wants to play SACDs, and IF one wants the original DSD digital stream without PCM conversion, and IF one wants the downstream DAC and amplification components/stages to have a quality of engineering and level of measured performance that are considered excellent at places like ASR, THEN in that case the Oppo 205 is not so easily replaced by a combination of current-model components for a similar or cheaper price than the Oppo's original retail price. That's all I'm saying.

 

[esm]

Until last month, my Oppo UDP-205 served as my A/V receiver: connect an 8-way HDMI switch to the Oppo's input, connect the analog outputs to amps, and you're off to the races with solid format decoding for HDMI devices, "good enough" network browsing and streaming, and higher output fidelity than almost anything in the "real" A/V market at the time I set it all up. Even the Reavon XBR-X200 couldn't fit this particular bill, due to the lack of an HDMI input.

It covered my use case more competently than anything else I could have pieced together at the time, for a very attractive price. Look at some of Amir's earliest AVR/AVP reviews, that's the kind of disappointing hardware the Oppo was competing with, for me.

(I genuinely don't understand what Oppo was thinking when they added that HDMI input; it's such a weird addition to a blu-ray player. Maybe they were considering moving into producing more general-purpose AVR/AVPs before they shut down? But definitely I took advantage of it, and the fact that it would happily pass through Dolby Vision was incredible.)

March of progress, etc: the current secondary market prices on Oppos are absolutely nuts, and for my specific use case, A/V receivers and processors have moved forward enough that I ended up taking the Oppo out of service at the center of my system a few weeks ago. But even today, as @tmtomh notes, if you've got a collection of SACDs, there are still good reasons to want to get your hands on one of these.

 

[james57]

FYI, I have been running the little brother the 105 for many years and although have been tempted to replace it I find it is still really special since it combines many special features you rarely see all at the same place, quality dac-preamp-hdmi arc-multiple outputs-audio processing.. if only they stuck around and started the room correction path.. well I am dreaming now..

 

[charlesnyc]

I purchased my BDP-205 shortly after it was released and have enjoyed years of fantastic listening, in particular SACD disc playback of classic jazz titles. Recently, for the first time, I purchased a few high rez downloads (128K DSD) from the best known sites, loaded them onto a thumbdrive and tried playback through the USB 3.0 inputs, expecting further improvements over SACD discs. Instead, it has been hugely disappointing -- in direct comparison with SACD discs, the USB sound is lifeless, 2 dimensional and what I think of as "digital" sound. I next tried a high rez PCM download of the 2021 remaster of CSNY's Deja Vu and again, the sound was awful. Literally unlistenable. So I'm baffled... is there something I'm missing here? Is there something inherently worse about playback of files off of a thumb drive? If anyone can shed any light on this, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[Adi777]

I would buy OPPO 205 only for the option of adding Polish subtitles to movies via USB. Unfortunately, my English is not, to put it mildly, perfect, so this option seems almost salutary to me. The question is, how many movies will there be without Polish subtitles?
The image quality is supposedly sensational, but is it better than, for example, in the Reavon UBR-X200? I doubt it.
The sound quality is probably the same.

 

[GXAlan]

I would sell and get a Marantz AV 10 instead.

1) The UBP205 is great but you can get standalone DACs with better performance. For physical SACDs, the noise shaping at DSD64 means that even the UB9000 will be transparent.

2) HDMI CEC and ARC are game changers for convenience. The Marantz line is very good at compatibility and you then can use your regular TV remote to control your BD player, AppleTV, etc.

3) AV10 has SINAD of 106. Lower but you get room correction and the benefit of matching your usability with your equipment

 

[MacCali]

I would sell and get a Marantz AV 10 instead.

1) The UBP205 is great but you can get standalone DACs with better performance. For physical SACDs, the noise shaping at DSD64 means that even the UB9000 will be transparent.

2) HDMI CEC and ARC are game changers for convenience. The Marantz line is very good at compatibility and you then can use your regular TV remote to control your BD player, AppleTV, etc.

3) AV10 has SINAD of 106. Lower but you get room correction and the benefit of matching your usability with your equipment

What’s this in regards too?

 

[GXAlan]

What’s this in regards too?

That is so weird.

I was reading this post and thought I was replying to it, but somehow it must have gone to a different tab

Oppo BDP-205 should I keep? Best steaming svcs and methods

I am going to keep my Oppo although tempted so sell and get a Panasonic for the prices they sell for. But supposedly they are worth it but how can an older machine be up to snuff with all the new formats? On a second note, since we have become addicted to Apple TV and watching Netflix, Prime...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Descartes]

I would sell and get a Marantz AV 10 instead.

1) The UBP205 is great but you can get standalone DACs with better performance. For physical SACDs, the noise shaping at DSD64 means that even the UB9000 will be transparent.

2) HDMI CEC and ARC are game changers for convenience. The Marantz line is very good at compatibility and you then can use your regular TV remote to control your BD player, AppleTV, etc.

3) AV10 has SINAD of 106. Lower but you get room correction and the benefit of matching your usability with your equipment

The UB9000 does not play SACD!!

 

[GXAlan]

The UB9000 does not play SACD!!

Sorry meant to say for physical SACDs that are ripped to DSD64, the lower SINAD of the UB9000 means that it’s not meaningfully worse than actual SACDs.

 

[Descartes]

Sorry meant to say for physical SACDs that are ripped to DSD64, the lower SINAD of the UB9000 means that it’s not meaningfully worse than actual SACDs.

Yes but you have to rip the SACDs which is a complicated affair!

 

[GXAlan]

Yes but you have to rip the SACDs which is a complicated affair!

Yes. Agree - I run a 2 ch Marantz SA11s2.

The Oppo has appreciated in value for this very reason. Ultra performance, ultra versatile. But if you don’t use all the features… maybe worth passing it on.