Review and Measurements of miniDSP SHD DAC, DSP And Streamer

[RigorDude]

Thanks for correcting, and sorry if I'm being obtuse. I've been assuming that 100 dB dynamic range would correspond to 16-bit resolution. I want to experiment with digital EQ, but not at the price of worse-than-CD sound quality. What do you consider to be the relevant number(s), given that goal?

MiniDSPs specs for the SHD - both dynamic range and SINAD - seem clearly better than those of the DDRC-24. But the SHD also has a bunch of stuff I don't really want, like a digital preamp. I can't help wondering if that's what all the extra bits are for - so that the SHD can include volume control without degrading the sound.

For my purposes, paying $500 more for the SHD only seems justified if there is real step up in sound quality. For that matter, Dirac seems kinda cool but even the 2x4 HD at 200 bucks would allow me to dink around with different EQ curves by ear.

 

[dionisp]

Just a subjective opinion. I own an SHD and a friend a 2X4HD and for testing purposes we compared them for fun on his setup (both setup between pre-amp and power amp with analogue input). SHD sounds way better. 2X4 HD is a decent piece of equipment for its price but I believe SHD is a big step up.

 

[Juhazi]

Just a subjective opinion. I own an SHD and a friend a 2X4HD and for testing purposes we compared them for fun on his setup (both setup between pre-amp and power amp with analogue input). SHD sounds way better. 2X4 HD is a decent piece of equipment for its price but I believe SHD is a big step up.

A friend loaned one of my 2x4HDs, but ordered SHD (mainly to make xo for subs). Now he says that SHD sounds better. I haven't hear it yet.

Can you describe, how does it sound way better? What do you think is causing the difference?

 

[dionisp]

Not really . My guess is lower noise/ distortion for SHD that gives a fuller sound experience with better dynamics, 2X4 HD sounded a little bit thin in comparison. But as I said, these are highly subjective opinions. We didn't do any proper blind test, nor a measured balancing of volume. We just switched them, tried to balance volumes by ear and listened to a couple of tracks.

Also the 2X4 HD getting analogue signal from the pre-amp produced a slight hum noise not evident in SHD.

 

[rvsixer]

With SHD Studio + 1 2-channel DAC, isn't the crossover feature effectively useless?

Depends on if a crossover on one channel is of use to you .

 

[rvsixer]

I keep seeing posts in this (and other) threads something like "if only this super duper awesome stereo preamp that is just perfect for me had HT bypass, I would buy it but it does not so I won't I can't I won't I can't...".

A HT bypass switches prepro outputs to shared amp inputs. Just use switches outside of the prepro instead turning away a stereo preamp that does not have them on the inside. You can then use any stereo preamp together with any multichannel prepro you desire. For around $200 USD, you can have HT bypass with proper subwoofer integration. Note if the stereo preamp does not have a sub output, it gets difficult but not impossible to have the subs available for both music and HT.

Here's a diagram of the system I next want to implement (my own use case is a bit more complex with stereo subs flanking the mains, and two other subs for room mode smoothing, but you get the idea). There are other approaches that run the AVR lines into the stereo preamp etc., but those just get too techie for other family members to use. With this, yes you have to throw a switch or two but the systems are completely independent, while not duplicating any items needed to make sound from either.

Never mind the specific equipment and or or notes or specific crossover frequencies listed, etc., as those are specific to my own needs and opinions Some are pics I already had, some are from another great example of HT bypass integration at https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=mug&m=235807 :

 

[beefkabob]

Here's a diagram of the system I next want to implement (my own use case is a bit more complex with stereo subs flanking the mains, and two other subs for room mode smoothing, but you get the idea). There are other approaches that run the AVR lines into the stereo preamp etc., but those just get too techie for other family members to use. With this, yes you have to throw a switch or two but the systems are completely independent, while not duplicating any items needed to make sound from either.

I have to use TWO switchers? The horror!

 

[rvsixer]

I have to use TWO switchers? The horror!

Depends on the equipment and configuration you want to implement.

For instance, the example link in my post has no external switchers (note however this design choice compromises LFE reproduction). Or, in my example, you could use a single 3-channel switcher (which does not compromise either LFE reproduction or bass management).

 

[twbro]

Finally an ethernet fed streamer with Dirac room correction, NOT bundled with a delta sigma dac - and ss preamp at an insane price. As you can tell I prefer the SHD studio. Currently running Dirac 2.0 from a PC with a SOtM TX-USBexp PCI board>W4S RUR>Curious Cable loom>Schiit Gungnir>LM508ia>Tekton DI.

Sounds great but always wanted the superior lower noise ethernet streamer option with Dirac capability that wasn't available until now. I prefer the sound of R2R dacs and tube gear, listening impressions valued first, measurements second. Nobody would buy tube gear if noise measurements were the only criteria.

I run a Marantz SR6013 receiver for movies in the same room as my above mentioned 2 channel system. Long story short is 2 channel sound is way more intoxicating. I can view my 65 OLED while surfing the web with premium music. I push the oled to the back wall in my treated room for 2 channel, then pull it forward between the speakers on a cart for cinema viewing angles, swap speaker cables too. Takes 2minutes.

This leads to my next point. My future purchases will likely involve a more realistic SS amp like the Pass XA-25 and a tube preamp with HT bypass, which will eliminate the need to swap speaker cables. No more burning tubes for movies or youtube, but retain excellent hi-fi. The tube pre-amp will provide the 3-D sweetness only tubes provide for music, but bypasses the receiver preouts to the hifi SS amp. I would consider the SHD preamp a waste for my 2 channel path, but admit it is a great value for others not looking into separates.

This minidsp solves the digital front end/room correction void great. Don't lose sight on what a great separate pre-amp (tube or ss) can do for sound with a premium power supply or off board LPS.

Notice the SHD studio is powered by an external supply. Opportunity for cleaner sound. Follow it with an LPS fed precision reclocker.

Please excuse the digression into more expensive setups, but that's where large sound improvements are made.

 

[waynel]

I keep seeing posts in this (and other) threads something like "if only this super duper awesome stereo preamp that is just perfect for me had HT bypass, I would buy it but it does not so I won't I can't I won't I can't...".

A HT bypass switches prepro outputs to shared amp inputs. Just use switches outside of the prepro instead turning away a stereo preamp that does not have them on the inside. You can then use any stereo preamp together with any multichannel prepro you desire. For around $200 USD, you can have HT bypass with proper subwoofer integration. Note if the stereo preamp does not have a sub output, it gets difficult but not impossible to have the subs available for both music and HT.

Here's a diagram of the system I next want to implement (my own use case is a bit more complex with stereo subs flanking the mains, and two other subs for room mode smoothing, but you get the idea). There are other approaches that run the AVR lines into the stereo preamp etc., but those just get too techie for other family members to use. With this, yes you have to throw a switch or two but the systems are completely independent, while not duplicating any items needed to make sound from either.

Never mind the specific equipment and or or notes or specific crossover frequencies listed, etc., as those are specific to my own needs and opinions Some are pics I already had, some are from another great example of HT bypass integration at https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=mug&m=235807 :

View attachment 57239

Not interested in adding two external switcher (which are going to be a nightmare to keep synced with a universal remote and make it difficult for anyone else in the family to use) when this could be a simple software solution for the SHD. What’s wrong with wanting a complete solution when spending over $1,000? MiniDSP makes great products but it appears they don’t quite understand consumer use cases.

 

[beefkabob]

...NOT bundled with a delta sigma dac... Curious Cable loom ...the 3-D sweetness only tubes provide for music... Don't lose sight on what a great separate pre-amp (tube or ss) can do for sound with a premium power supply or off board LPS. ...Notice the SHD studio is powered by an external supply. Opportunity for cleaner sound. Follow it with an LPS fed precision reclocker... that's where large sound improvements are made.

Nice first post, man. The good news is, you can save a shit ton of money by removing all the voodoo from your system. We love you and we're here to help.

 

[twbro]

I've always thought good sub integration involved dual subs (or more) and full range speakers. The more point sources of 20-80 Hz bass the better, smooths out the room modes, hence the desire for full range speakers. Full range speakers also provide continuity in the sound of the amp to lower octaves. Rythmik and other well regarded brands suggest crossing over at low frequencies ~40-50Hz with full range speakers, not the basic 80Hz provided by most receivers.

I plan on feeding dual subs with an extra set of preouts from a dedicated preamp, left to left sub , right to right. Calibration will just be run in 2 channel stereo, with sub and main speaker bass being calibrated in superposition, hopefully cleaning up some of the crossover effects in the process. This is important as integration is key to 2 channel performance, not holding on to your HT sub channel. I am interested in using Audessy corrected sub outs from my receiver through a 2 channel switcher to change from LFE duty from the receiver to 2 channel mains mode via dedicated preamp outs.

If your running book shelf monitors and separate subs in a dual purpose system, I can see the desire for the HT bypass option from minidsp. Somebody already hit the nail on the head saying far too many options from the AVR world. I'll venture a guess and say if you're more heavily invested in a 2 channel focused system with full range speakers and subs that can also do HT, you'll be looking for a dedicated pre with HT bypass. Minidsp seems to understand this and has offered the studio model.

 

[twbro]

Nice first post, man. The good news is, you can save a shit ton of money by removing all the voodoo from your system. We love you and we're here to help.

That's what was available 2-3 years ago and made great improvements to the sound, so no, not Voodoo. Agree about the money savings with the SHD

 

[beefkabob]

That's what was available 2-3 years ago and made great improvements to the sound, so no, not Voodoo. Agree about the money savings with the SHD

Drop the tube amp and the expensive wiring, and just go SHD Studio to DAC to amp/speaker or powered speaker with build in DAC that has been measured to perform well in the real world. Add a sub or two. Two subs for a wider listening experience. 1 sub if it's just you.

 

[rvsixer]

Not interested in adding two external switcher (which are going to be a nightmare to keep synced with a universal remote and make it difficult for anyone else in the family to use) when this could be a simple software solution for the SHD. What’s wrong with wanting a complete solution when spending over $1,000? MiniDSP makes great products but it appears they don’t quite understand consumer use cases.

Hmmm so so much incorrect here, clearly misunderstood intent or execution. Anyways, as mentioned previously, this was just to give an idea for those who want an SHD (or other non-HT bypass preamp) and AVR in one setup for minimal cost and high ease of use. If you are not interested, don't do it. Back to SHD only ....

 

[waynel]

Hmmm so so much incorrect here, clearly misunderstood intent or execution. Anyways, as mentioned previously, this was just to give an idea for those who want an SHD (or other non-HT bypass preamp) and AVR in one setup for minimal cost and high ease of use. If you are not interested, don't do it. Back to SHD only ....

What's incorrect? there
Fact: I'm not interested in adding an external switcher
Fact: A bypass (pass through) could be a simple software solution
Fact: I want a complete solution when spending over $1,000
debatable: MiniDSP doesn't understand consumer use cases (evidenced by lack of HT pass-trough, no 12V trigger etc.)

Which one of these is incorrect?

 

[Soniclife]

Fact: A bypass (pass through) could be a simple software solution

Have you suggested this to them?
What do you want, a fixed volume when a specific input is selected?

 

[waynel]

I suggested it (along with many others) on the minidsp support forum.

with HT passthrough enabled (via a universal remote code)the selected LR of one input would go through A/D and pass to the LR main output DAC at unity gain and minimal latency . Another selected input would take the sub signal from a receiver and pass it to both sub outputs in the same manner. Bass management would be handled by an AVR in this use case

 

[rvsixer]

What's incorrect? there
Fact: I'm not interested in adding an external switcher
Fact: A bypass (pass through) could be a simple software solution
Fact: I want a complete solution when spending over $1,000
debatable: MiniDSP doesn't understand consumer use cases (evidenced by lack of HT pass-trough, no 12V trigger etc.)

Which one of these is incorrect?

What's incorrect? there - ???
Fact: I'm not interested in adding an external switcher - yes very aware, again nobody is forcing you to do it
Fact: A bypass (pass through) could be a simple software solution - not without severely compromising LFE and or bass management (as already mentioned in my post), nor can a software hit magically add the third input needed to support LFE/bass management correctly
Fact: I want a complete solution when spending over $1,000 - by all means do so, they are out there (my current stereo preamp with HT bypass and correct sub support cost me $650 USD used)
debatable: MiniDSP doesn't understand consumer use cases (evidenced by lack of HT pass-trough, no 12V trigger etc.) - yes the vast majority of stereo preamp purchasers are specifically looking to incorporate a multichannel device into their systems, just as AVR manufacturers know they had very well better make their stuff sound awesome with 2-channel sources or they won't be able to sell any (sarcasm mode off)

 

[Soniclife]

I suggested it (along with many others) on the minidsp support forum.

with HT passthrough enabled (via a universal remote code)the selected LR of one input would go through A/D and pass to the LR main output DAC at unity gain and minimal latency . Another selected input would take the sub signal from a receiver and pass it to both sub outputs in the same manner. Bass management would be handled by an AVR in this use case

Does their architecture support dual ad conversion?