Review and Measurements of miniDSP SHD DAC, DSP And Streamer

[waynel]

Does their architecture support dual ad conversion?

I don’t know. If not then maybe no software solution?

 

[waynel]

Does their architecture support dual ad conversion?

suggestion revised in the case that A/D of only 2 channels at a time are supported:

with HT passthrough enabled (via a universal remote code)the selected LR of one input would go through A/D and pass to the LR main output and subwoofer output DAC at unity gain and minimal latency with crossover still applied . The AVR could handle room correction. The AVR should be set for no sub but large front speakers. If LFE can be channeled to main speakers via AVR then do so otherwise you'd lose LFE - a compromise.

 

[Soniclife]

I don’t know. If not then maybe no software solution?

If they don't have 4 ad converters I don't see how software can get you there.

 

[waynel]

What's incorrect? there - ???
Fact: I'm not interested in adding an external switcher - yes very aware, again nobody is forcing you to do it
Fact: A bypass (pass through) could be a simple software solution - not without severely compromising LFE and or bass management (as already mentioned in my post), nor can a software hit magically add the third input needed to support LFE/bass management correctly
Fact: I want a complete solution when spending over $1,000 - by all means do so, they are out there (my current stereo preamp with HT bypass and correct sub support cost me $650 USD used)
debatable: MiniDSP doesn't understand consumer use cases (evidenced by lack of HT pass-trough, no 12V trigger etc.) - yes the vast majority of stereo preamp purchasers are specifically looking to incorporate a multichannel device into their systems, just as AVR manufacturers know they had very well better make their stuff sound awesome with 2-channel sources or they won't be able to sell any (sarcasm mode off)

What's so wrong with wanting to add HT capability to a 2 channel system without compromising the 2 channel system? I cant be the only one? Can't find any device that does this and measures as well as the SHD.

 

[murraycamp]

What's so wrong with wanting to add HT capability to a 2 channel system without compromising the 2 channel system? I cant be the only one? Can't find any device that does this and measures as well as the SHD.

Preach.

 

[rvsixer]

SHD has four AD converters (two balanced, two unbalanced connectors) on two selectable input sets.

But even if miniDSP would make a preset using three of those four inputs for your AVR, now you must remove whatever device you already had attached there (for example turntable). So gasp now you have to perform some switching to go between movies and music again (in addition to unbalanced/balanced connector conversions and voltage differences).

The only way I see proper AVR integration is full three channel grouped passthrough, on one input selection

 

[waynel]

SHD has four AD converters (two balanced, two unbalanced connectors) on two selectable input sets.

But even if miniDSP would make a preset using three of those four inputs for your AVR, now you must remove whatever device you already had attached there (for example turntable). So gasp now you have to perform some switching to go between movies and music again (in addition to unbalanced/balanced connector conversions and voltage differences).

The only way I see proper AVR integration is full three channel grouped passthrough, on one input selection

I have no analog attachments to my system other than the AVR preouts. This solution would work fine for me.

 

[waynel]

Combining the best of the SHD and Anthem STR would be great. Either one is almost there for adding a HT to an un-compromised 2.2 system.

Either of the following would serve my needs perfectly:

STR + digital outs of SHD or superior measurements of SHD + Streaming of SHD

SHD + HT bypass + 12V trigger + design with universal remote use in mind

( I would settle for whatever software update to make HT bypass + universal remote friendly)

 

[Bachemar]

What's so wrong with wanting to add HT capability to a 2 channel system without compromising the 2 channel system? I cant be the only one? Can't find any device that does this and measures as well as the SHD.

This would be much easier if the sub had multiple inputs (an LFE and L/R inputs). In this case the AVR would connect to the LFE, and SHD would connect to one of the L/R inputs in the sub.

Now for HT pass through/bypass the SHD would simply need to switch to the right input, assign fixed/unity gain and disable all Dirac and bass management - passing L/R signal to the amp. Ideally this would even skip the AD conversion, as it’s pure pass through. AVR sends LFE signal directly to the subs.

Subs that have multiple inputs tend to sum the signals from both sources, so the only trade off is that the 2 channel and AVR system cannot be producing a signal at the same time.

 

[waynel]

This would be much easier if the sub had multiple inputs (an LFE and L/R inputs). In this case the AVR would connect to the LFE, and SHD would connect to one of the L/R inputs in the sub.

Now for HT pass through/bypass the SHD would simply need to switch to the right input, assign fixed/unity gain and disable all Dirac and bass management - passing L/R signal to the amp. Ideally this would even skip the AD conversion, as it’s pure pass through. AVR sends LFE signal directly to the subs.

Subs that have multiple inputs tend to sum the signals from both sources, so the only trade off is that the 2 channel and AVR system cannot be producing a signal at the same time.

Agreed, This makes sense and my subs do have multiple inputs so HT mode would be a simple software update solution for the SHD ( would want some kind of dedicated universal remote code to switch into HT mode with one command) yet miniDSP hasn't implemented this. I would up buying an Anthem STR which I'm liking and serves my purposes fine.

 

[stren]

Can't you just have your receiver pipe the .1 channel to front L/R then have your preamp split it out the sub like normal?

 

[waynel]

Can't you just have your receiver pipe the .1 channel to front L/R then have your preamp split it out the sub like normal?

You could but then need a crossover and also some receivers might not route the LFE track to the L+R properly. With a software update the SHD could handle this, but none has been provided (see my earlier suggestion below:

suggestion revised in the case that A/D of only 2 channels at a time are supported:

with HT passthrough enabled (via a universal remote code)the selected LR of one input would go through A/D and pass to the LR main output and subwoofer output DAC at unity gain and minimal latency with crossover still applied . The AVR could handle room correction. The AVR should be set for no sub but large front speakers. If LFE can be channeled to main speakers via AVR then do so otherwise you'd lose LFE - a compromise.

Point is, MiniDSP is not thinking about this product from the consumer perspective with integration into a home theater or integration into home automation. Anthem is, that's why I bought an STR.

 

[rvsixer]

Can't you just have your receiver pipe the .1 channel to front L/R then have your preamp split it out the sub like normal?

Already pointed out. LFE > sub crossover will go to the mains, not the sub(s) like it's intended to. That's why three-channel switching is required to do it properly (L/R/sub out).

Unless you like your sub crossover set at 120Hz .... courtesy of AVS forums ( https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...yamaha-1050-2050-3050-owner-s-thread-125.html ):

https://imgur.com/FzwnN91

 

[waynel]

Already pointed out. LFE > sub crossover will go to the mains, not the sub(s) like it's intended to.

This would be ok because SHD crossover could still be active putting LFE back to the subs.

 

[Hayabusa]

FYI, the inherent latency of this unit is about 25mS regardless of whether Dirac Live is engaged or not. If incorporating this unit into an HT system that would need to be understood.


Dave.

Was this 25msec measured/confirmed?
Indeed 25msec is serious problem with HT if you want to use the SHD for only L+R.
My Marantz AV8805 can only handle delta delays of 6 meters max (17.44 msec)
Bummer, I just ordered one with miniDSP.
Why does miniDSP at least add the option to disable dirac to get a kind of HT-bypass....

 

[dwkdnvr]

Where did the 25ms number come from? We use it in our living room on the TV system, and haven't noticed any problems with lipsync, although it's just in a 2.0 setup so we aren't trying to match any delays.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

Was this 25msec measured/confirmed?
Indeed 25msec is serious problem with HT if you want to use the SHD for only L+R.
My Marantz AV8805 can only handle delta delays of 6 meters max (17.44 msec)
Bummer, I just ordered one with miniDSP.
Why does miniDSP at least add the option to disable dirac to get a kind of HT-bypass....

I measured it on my test bench. Very simple test.

Dave.

 

[Hayabusa]

Where did the 25ms number come from? We use it in our living room on the TV system, and haven't noticed any problems with lipsync, although it's just in a 2.0 setup so we aren't trying to match any delays.

In the mean time I asked miniDSP, they said 23 msec latency for the SHD.
I have suggested them making a HT bypass or a possibility to disable dirac if you want to reduce latency..
Hopefully they will listen to (HT) customers and add this easy to make change in the firmware.
They also suggested the older DDRC-88A which according to them has less latency: 13 msec.
But most likely that one also has an older ADC/DAC that performs less than the SHD.

 

[carlob]

My SHD is on the way, I just plan to use the Freya S as a bypass and a switch for the subwoofers. I could also ditch the Freya and use a second switch. The Anthem STR is nice but it's three times the price of the Minidisp.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

Where did the 25ms number come from? We use it in our living room on the TV system, and haven't noticed any problems with lipsync, although it's just in a 2.0 setup so we aren't trying to match any delays.

25mS is not all that much regards lip-sync. If you're watching a TV show and a lip-sync issue is immediately noticeable, it's probably much greater than 25mS.
And usually audio is ahead of the video anyways. So, a little extra delay in the audio path might actually help the situation.

Dave.