Response to PS Audio on P12 PowerPlant Measurements (Video)

[pkane]

Lol. Live about 30 min from ps audio and know their game is and would never buy anything from them. You missed the point. The point is ASR carrying on about this thinking the audio community doesnt already know better is silly. Sorry you bought a P300.

Actually, I didn't buy it, but it does have its uses. That output frequency setting is very convenient when troubleshooting mains frequency leakage, as I can have one component at a time plugged into it and running at, say 70Hz, while the others continue to run on 60.

 

[Ricardus]

Lol. Live about 30 min from ps audio and know their game is and would never buy anything from them. You missed the point. The point is ASR carrying on about this thinking the audio community doesnt already know better is silly. Sorry you bought a P300.

I thought the reason people know is precisely BECAUSE of ASR and sites like it?

 

[Dzhaughn]

On the bright side, Paul McGowan doesn't work in medicine or build infrastructure.

Probably no one has died as a result of using his products. I'm open to counterexamples however!

 

[Spkrdctr]

Good lord, it is back! I nominate the P12 for the Zombie Panther award, because it just won't stay dead!

Now that is funny! It should go on the humor thread too. Great Post!

 

[amirm]

The question is if you found one of these ps-12s in a dumpster or a thrift store would you use it in one of your setups?

I have two AC Regens but don't use either. They just waste power and take up space.

 

[amirm]

The point is ASR carrying on about this thinking the audio community doesnt already know better is silly.

You should read the commentary under Paul's and my video. A lot of people are surprised and learning the reality of what this box does. And how the company is operating. Presenting solid data in clear manner works.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I have two AC Regens but don't use either. They just waste power and take up space.

Paul loves you for having two of his fantastic power plants! His next vacation to Europe is on you! (joking)

 

[Spkrdctr]

You should read the commentary under Paul's and my video. A lot of people are surprised and learning the reality of what this box does. And how the company is operating. Presenting solid data in clear manner works.

The threads at PS Audio blew up over Amir's testing. In a way it forced BS Audio to respond as many people were not happy with the results. Amir, this might be your best review ever in getting a reaction from a manufacturer and all the testing being done. I think some people have had their eyes opened. Now if he would get off the DSD audio kick. He is wasting thousands upon thousands of dollars on his new studio and a custom mixer for DSD audio. In the end it will still have the DSD audio flaws for consumers that you clearly showed in your review of DSD. Heck, while we are at it, can we bring back cassette tapes? You could market them under the old banner "Is it live or Memorex" by Amir. Or even DAT tapes would be fun because all the old stuff that was left in the trash pile of history is "the best" to audiophools. Maybe you can review an old Victrola with the Dog in the ad. Really get the audiophools worked up! Wax recording rolls? I just can't stop the great ideas I'm having!

 

[JJB70]

Measured audio output - is what matters. Audio doesn't go through mains.

No dispute that it is the audio output that matters. There are areas with very poor mains quality and not all electrical equipment can manage such low quality without degraded performance. Therefore there are applications for which a power conditioner is useful. However, you don't have to pay much for a perfectly good power conditioner.

 

[Ricardus]

He is wasting thousands upon thousands of dollars on his new studio and a custom mixer for DSD audio.

I am still waiting to see that new console he is allegedly building. Very few details about it.

 

[faheem]

It's pretty clear the inbuilt THD analysis of the PS Audio P-12 powerplant is considerably better than you give it credit for. It is correctly displaying the notched-out residual under magnification, something completely unrelated to the number of pixels on the LCD. It's not an APX-555 and doesn't pretend to be. Take it for what it is.

The line regulation cannot be dismissed and it is trivial to demonstrate with any medium powered amplifier using a traditional linear (transformer/bridge/caps) that a lower supply voltage translates directly to a much lower output power. Also, line regulation serves to prolong the life of filter capacitors, incandescent dial/meter illumination and other components not sitting downstream from a regulator.

Most amplifiers of traditional design (the majority of amplifiers out there likely to use this product), have little to no regulation for their main high current supplies and not much more (other than a RC) for the front ends.

The simple fact of the matter is a low impedance, stable mains voltage supplying your gear is a good thing. PS Audio is supplying a product for sale that does that. That cannot be argued with and still retain credibility. You can choose to buy one or not, but this continual unwarranted attack on the man and the company is unbecoming.

Why not just let it go?

I’m not in the market for this device but if I was, and particularly considering the price. I would want a full analysis and if the manufacturer responded, I would definitely want and appreciate a clarification from the reviewer.

It’s extremely useful for lay people like myself, who are more easily swayed by marketing because of our lack of electrical and electronic knowledge.

Being a headphone person, Amir’s critical analysis has helped me out with regards to amps and dacs, much more than if he had been less critical and left the door open to any misunderstanding on what he was critical over a product about.

 

[charleski]

$ 150k has nothing to do with quality. It has everything to do with audio jewelry and them not selling much of them and still having to make a living.

This is luxury pricing, in which the critical aim is to protect notional brand equity. This is an arena in which conventional considerations of pricing elasticity are reversed and a reduction in price would lead to lower sales.

Here Is The Only Good Pricing Strategy For Luxury Brands

Pricing is incredibly important for luxury businesses because many of them destroy brand equity when they lower prices in search of fast, easy growth.

jingdaily.com

 

[Endibol]

I got asked so many times in so many places what I thought of PS Audio measurements of P12 that I thought I should do a video on it:

Paul McGowan's reply to Armin's measurements shows what a petty man he is: pathetic!

 

[solderdude]

I would not use the word petty to describe Paul.

I think he is a real commercial and quite successful business man in the audio world with a big following. PS audio depends on the lack of technical knowledge from its (potential) customers and feeds them facts + 'magic'. I believe he really believes that what he preaches and needs to keep the business going as well.

A shrewd businessman would probably be more fitting.
His 'video answer' is an attempt to save 'his business' and indeed a pathetic attempt to discredit Amir (and ASR) by feeding his customers incorrect info which they, again, swallow like hot-cakes.

 

[sweetsounds]

I have a P300 and it subjectively improved sound with a Pass Aleph Preamp, but only there.

What annoys me about PS Audio today:
- false spec on output impedance of high current outlet (3 Ohm!!!) and not admitting to it
- exaggerated spec for other outlets by measuring inside the box
- false claim that the P12 is still a regenerator, which it obviously is not

If you still believe in noise problems from mains:
Better to either buy a lab power generator, the Stromtank S5000 for 40k, or even go DC from batteries directly into the equipment bypassing all the rectification and noise in the first place.

PS Audio P12 has no meaningful function for my rig and is patchwork.

 

[Sharpi31]

IMHO, to have the best impact we need to maximise the ‘SINAD’ of these threads: keep the focus on measurements and analysis of measurements, and reduce the word count questioning the character of the manufacturer team and their fans. That noise just dilutes the message and moves us away from objectivity (and makes ASR an easy target).

Never Wrestle with a Pig. You Both Get Dirty and the Pig Likes It.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

The question is if you found one of these ps-12s in a dumpster or a thrift store would you use it in one of your setups? I certainly would even if it added no value to the sound quality. And that is why they sell. But to rage on about why people who do but buy it is kind of silly no? There is no point to prove. Not worth the effort getting into a spat about it move on.

I wouldn't, no.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Lol. Live about 30 min from ps audio and know their game is and would never buy anything from them. You missed the point. The point is ASR carrying on about this thinking the audio community doesnt already know better is silly. Sorry you bought a P300.

you carrying on thinking the audio community does know better is even more silly.

I guess we're moving past "your measurements don't tell us everything! There's clearly something missing that accounts for the magic I'm hearing!" and we're now in "Hey man it's just a hobby and we're just having fun! We all already know what's really going on...no need to tell us" territory.

 

[TheBatsEar]

I wouldn't, no.

Lot's of nice parts in it.
I probably would glue the heatsink on the top of my car, like a mohawk.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Paul posts a new vid of him hanging out at his awesome audio laboratory every four or five days. I never watch them, but I see the thumbnails in my feed. Then there's the Guttenburgs and the Darkos and all the other audiophile salesmen posting their vids. I don't see why Amir shouldn't feel free to do the same.