Response to PS Audio on P12 PowerPlant Measurements (Video)

[Lécheq]

Yeah, year, you guys organize 2 minute Hate Sessions against Emanuel Goldstein, I mean Paul McGowan. With your Big Brother Amir.
You're crazy.

 

[AudiOhm]

I've used Audioquest cables before, from a dumpster. I can attest that they worked!

When a manufacture comes up with a cool name (Audioquest) for their cables, the gullible audiophile community will rush out to get them...

What if they called them (Deadsound), would they sell???

Ohms

 

[kencreten]

It's pretty clear the inbuilt THD analysis of the PS Audio P-12 powerplant is considerably better than you give it credit for. It is correctly displaying the notched-out residual under magnification, something completely unrelated to the number of pixels on the LCD. It's not an APX-555 and doesn't pretend to be. Take it for what it is.

The line regulation cannot be dismissed and it is trivial to demonstrate with any medium powered amplifier using a traditional linear (transformer/bridge/caps) that a lower supply voltage translates directly to a much lower output power. Also, line regulation serves to prolong the life of filter capacitors, incandescent dial/meter illumination and other components not sitting downstream from a regulator.

Most amplifiers of traditional design (the majority of amplifiers out there likely to use this product), have little to no regulation for their main high current supplies and not much more (other than a RC) for the front ends.

The simple fact of the matter is a low impedance, stable mains voltage supplying your gear is a good thing. PS Audio is supplying a product for sale that does that. That cannot be argued with and still retain credibility. You can choose to buy one or not, but this continual unwarranted attack on the man and the company is unbecoming.

Why not just let it go?

Why not protect the ignorant, from companies like this that sell a piece of gear... for a $7000 the entrance fee, that gives almost nothing? Because it's the right thing to do.

 

[kencreten]

Power conditioning is one of those things which sits in a grey area. Unless your mains supply is hideous then most electronic equipment can manage well. However there are outlier cases for which power conditioning is useful and beneficial. The problem is you don't have to pay much for a perfectly good power conditioner. If people like the industrial design of the PS units and view it as a luxury discretionary purchase then that's fine but they are awfully expensive for what they do and they are only really useful for a small number of outlier cases.

Measured audio output - is what matters. Audio doesn't go through mains.

 

[kencreten]

Wanna buy a T-Shirt... only $2995.

How does it sound?

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Cut Paul some slack. He is selling AC regulators. Does it regulate? Yes.
I like him, he is a very nice guy and he helps muggles understand basics.

What Stereophile wrote about Paul's devices:
"with the P12 there was a major step forward in overall realism. With no change in volume setting, the sound was more dynamic."
Of course, if you have something worth $10k your subconsciousness tells you that is a good product worth the money.

You are the perfect target for PS Audio. Sad.

 

[kencreten]

Please do not tar and feather me...

20 years ago or so, I purchased some speaker cables from a local store in London.

They advertised 50% off. I paid $600.. CDN taxes in for PS Audio Statement II speaker cables...

Still use them, would like to know how they measure up...

Ohms

I'm sorry to say, they probably measure like any other speaker cables.

 

[sam_adams]

Yeah, year, you guys organize 2 minute Hate Sessions against Emanuel Goldstein, I mean Paul McGowan. With your Big Brother Amir.
You're crazy.

 

[AudiOhm]

Ohms

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Yeah, year, you guys organize 2 minute Hate Sessions against Emanuel Goldstein, I mean Paul McGowan. With your Big Brother Amir.
You're crazy.

crazy like a fox!

 

[Ricardus]

View attachment 195258

Oh, the fake account from Boulder Colorado SPEAKS!

 

[gerG]

Good lord, it is back! I nominate the P12 for the Zombie Panther award, because it just won't stay dead!

 

[laudio]

Without getting into the argument more, seems that those that can pay $7k for a power strip are not that ignorant and if that's what they will spend their money on. I get the whole argument on why this product isn't worth much. But c'mon... Does anybody really think ps audio is selling something to people who cant afford it anyway?

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Ahhh the lobbyist have the upper hand here…there is infinite amounts of money to throw against science when product garner high end prices…poor ASR ….out there all alone with no army of sales people spouting off half truths . My usual question is ….is there 6000 dollars worth of improvement…$6000 is almost a pair of top end genelec….$6000 buys a lot of room equalization which may be (fill in your % here______).

my friend who build speakers and Chinese amps is 75 years old and has a better bench the PS audio.

 

[laudio]

Sheesh... Nothing in audio is about "science" and there never has been. I enjoy all the hard work this site does and all reviews of products you won't find anywhere else. To equate it to real science is kind of stupid though it's a hobby. So I get both sides. Most of the arguments here are more about much something costs vs real science. Going to listen to some vinyl now...

 

[pkane]

Sheesh... Nothing in audio is about "science" and there never has been. I enjoy all the hard work this site does and all reviews of products you won't find anywhere else. To equate it to real science is kind of stupid though it's a hobby. So I get both sides. Most of the arguments here are more about much something costs vs real science. Going to listen to some vinyl now...

Nah, it's not about science. It's about what works and what doesn't. If it works, how well it performs, and if it doesn't work, then why. The rest is all opinions. And no, money doesn't make one any less ignorant, but often more arrogant, at least IME.

 

[laudio]

Nah, it's not about science. It's about what works and what doesn't. If it works, how well it performs, and if it doesn't work, then why. The rest is all opinions. And no, money doesn't make one any less ignorant, but often more arrogant, at least IME.

The question is if you found one of these ps-12s in a dumpster or a thrift store would you use it in one of your setups? I certainly would even if it added no value to the sound quality. And that is why they sell. But to rage on about why people who do but buy it is kind of silly no? There is no point to prove. Not worth the effort getting into a spat about it move on.

 

[Russ_L]

Going fishing this weekend so I hit my local Bass Pro Shop today. Stopped at the boat anchor department first. They had three anchors in stock. A P12 for $5,499. A P15 for $7,499 and a P20 for $9,999. Not to my taste so I’ll just fill a Home Depot bucket with concrete and use the saved $$$ for some tunes for the boat.

Captain Russ

 

[pkane]

The question is if you found one of these ps-12s in a dumpster or a thrift store would you use it in one of your setups? I certainly would even if it added no value to the sound quality. And that is why they sell. But to rage on about why people who do but buy it is kind of silly no? There is no point to prove. Not worth the effort getting into a spat about it move on.

A discussion about measurements and exaggerated marketing claims is hardly "raging". But I can see you're unhappy about the issues being discussed. Do you own a P12? It's OK, you know, nobody hates you for it. Heck, I own a P300, and I'm not mad. But then, it actually performs better than the P12, although I can't plug in my amps into it

 

[laudio]

A discussion about measurements and exaggerated marketing claims is hardly "raging". But I can see you're unhappy about the issues being discussed. Do you own a P12? It's OK, you know, nobody hates you for it. Heck, I own a P300, and I'm not mad. But then, it actually performs better than the P12, although I can't plug in my amps into it

Lol. Live about 30 min from ps audio and know their game is and would never buy anything from them. You missed the point. The point is ASR carrying on about this thinking the audio community doesnt already know better is silly. Sorry you bought a P300.